# Excessive use of presidential pardon **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284 "2018-06-01T21:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284/21 "2018-06-02T13:32:59Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > As far as I know, the very first impeachment and removal of a federal official (a judge) did not involve any accusations that the official had committed a _crime_. The accusation was that the judge was a drunk and his rulings sucked. The impeachment was successful and he was removed. There was one other judge impeached for drunkenness, but he resigned before the trial. > > Excessive drunkenness in office isn’t a crime, but I think it would fall within the broader definitions of “misdemeanors.” Also, note that the constitution says “high crimes”, not “crimes”. And “high crimes” does not mean “really bad crimes”, but means the type of crime that, generally, only an government official can commit because he or she is in a position of authority. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284/22 "2018-06-02T17:48:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As a political reality, that’s true. As a matter of law, since the decision of Congress is unreviewable, they could, in fact, pass a resolution that said: > > \*Resolved, that Donald John Trump, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors, and that the following article of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate: > > Wherefore, Donald John Trump, by the fact that his face exhibits certain signs of dishonesty, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United > States.\* > > Politically unfeasible, but perfectly legal. Add in that Melania gets to slap him in public, just once, and I’m in. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284/23 "2018-06-02T17:58:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Also, note that the constitution says “high crimes”, not “crimes”. And “high crimes” does not mean “really bad crimes”, but means the type of crime that, generally, only an government official can commit because he or she is in a position of authority. Hmm. Does that mean you figure the phrase includes ‘high misdemeanors’? Or do you figure it refers to ‘high crimes’, and — on an unrelated note — to ‘misdemeanors’? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284/24 "2018-06-02T18:19:25Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Hmm. Does that mean you figure the phrase includes ‘high misdemeanors’? Or do you figure it refers to ‘high crimes’, and — on an unrelated note — to ‘misdemeanors’? Funny you should ask, because I was thinking about that as I posted. I honestly don’t know, but if I were to offer my opinion I would say yes. Mostly because the phrase “[high misdemeanors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_misdemeanor)” was also historically used in a similar context (emphasis added): > [@](#): > > High Misdemeanor is an archaic term in English Law for a number of positive misprisions, neglects and contempts. A good example of this is treason. The most important example may be that of maladministration in high office. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284/25 "2018-06-02T20:16:35Z")
That link’s go-to example of a high misdemeanor: _“Where a Jew advises the Crown on the appointment to offices of the Churches of England, Ireland and Scotland”_. Can’t say I saw that coming. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284/26 "2018-06-02T21:17:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Add in that Melania gets to slap him in public, just once, and I’m in. > > 🙂 I know I’m taking the joke seriously, but it’s worth noting that impeachment can only carry two penalties: > [@](#): > > Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284/27 "2018-06-02T22:27:13Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > That link’s go-to example of a high misdemeanor: _“Where a Jew advises the Crown on the appointment to offices of the Churches of England, Ireland and Scotland”_. > > Can’t say I saw that coming. The phrase originated centuries ago. If we were writing it for today’s audience, we might phrase it differently, like: abuse of power or abuse of office. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284/28 "2018-06-02T22:51:41Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > That link’s go-to example of a high misdemeanor: _“Where a Jew advises the Crown on the appointment to offices of the Churches of England, Ireland and Scotland”_. > > Can’t say I saw that coming. I looked at the references and it appears that law, and the similar one applying to Catholics, come from the Relief Acts which allowed Catholics (in 1829) and Jews (in 1858) to be Members of Parliament. I suppose it made sense at the time that the laws allowing for non-Anglican MPs should also exclude them from being involved in church governance. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284/29 "2018-06-02T23:00:48Z")
List of pardons thru Obama: [Presidential Pardon Records](https://www.infoplease.com/history-and-government/us-presidents/presidential-pardons) Obama was was relatively low on pardons but had a great number of clemencies: [How Trump compares with past presidents on pardons and commutations | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/20/obama-used-more-clemency-power/) Trump pardons to date (with a dose of politics): [https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/31/politics/trump-pardons-political-friends/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/31/politics/trump-pardons-political-friends/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284/30 "2018-06-03T07:46:56Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > List of pardons thru Obama: [Presidential Pardon Records](https://www.infoplease.com/history-and-government/us-presidents/presidential-pardons) > > Obama was was relatively low on pardons but had a great number of clemencies: [http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/20/obama-used-more-clemency-power/](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/20/obama-used-more-clemency-power/) > > Trump pardons to date (with a dose of politics): [https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/31/politics/trump-pardons-political-friends/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/31/politics/trump-pardons-political-friends/index.html) The pardon power, to me, has always come off as skeevy regardless of who was president. They seem to pardon cronies and the like. That said, looking at your list, the number of pardons is pretty high. So, is it we only read about the skeevy ones and they are actually (mostly) pardoning people where a miscarriage of justice seemed to occur? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excessive-use-of-presidential-pardon/815284.md?page=1)