# Excommunication **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 29, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290 "2014-04-29T17:28:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/41 "2014-05-27T00:00:26Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > Talking about cheap shots… > > [ul] > [li] A _reformed alcoholic_ is a person who no longer drinks alcohol.[/li][li] A _reformed criminal_ is a person who no longer lives a life a crime.[/li][li] A _Reformed Jew_ is a person who…[/li][/ul] > Hey, it gets big laughs in [Borough Park](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borough_Park,_Brooklyn). > > For those who don’t know Borough Park… It’s “Reform Jew,” not “Reformed Jew.” Cf. “Reform Judaism.” Yes, I know what Borough Park is. ---
**Author:** ![eastcheap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@eastcheap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eastcheap)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/42 "2014-05-27T04:10:00Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Nun-napping? Is that like kidnapping, but with nuns instead of kids? I have an otherwise pretty good recording of _Peer Gynt_ whose liner notes translate “_bruderovet_” as “the bridenapping.” It’s like appending “-gate” to the end of political scandal. Apparently you can still get kicked out for desecrating the Host. There was a big story about that, but my google-fu is weak. Hell, maybe Cecil mentioned it (I’m far too lazy to look). ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/43 "2014-05-27T13:17:01Z")
> [@eastcheap](#): > > Apparently you can still get kicked out for desecrating the Host. There was a big story about that, but my google-fu is weak. Hell, maybe Cecil mentioned it (I’m far too lazy to look). Well, it’s still not “kicked out”, it’s automatic excommunication which as others have said is not being kicked out of the church. [Host desecration - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_desecration) Yes, your google-fu is VERY weak. Try “desecrated host”. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/44 "2014-05-27T13:26:48Z")
> [@eastcheap](#): > > I have an otherwise pretty good recording of _Peer Gynt_ whose liner notes translate “_bruderovet_” as “the bridenapping.” It’s like appending “-gate” to the end of political scandal. > > Apparently you can still get kicked out for desecrating the Host. There was a big story about that, but my google-fu is weak. Hell, maybe Cecil mentioned it (I’m far too lazy to look). I don’t think the word “nun-napping” is in my ggg-father’s excommunication letter. But that’s what the family calls it. The “victim” was actually willing, and had requested liberation, so it was nun-napping from the church’s point of view only. Probably, if they’d taken her letter to the bishop, they could have gotten her out without getting in trouble, but my ggg-father was already done with the church, and so was his friend the moment he found out what was happening to his daughter. I guess she’d chosen one of those cloistered orders, and not one of the ones that does some kind of charity work. I’m not sure. Maybe postulants weren’t placed outside the order for work, or something. I’m pretty sure that by the church’s own rules, she should have been allowed to leave, but my ggg-father and his friend took (canon) law into their own hands, violated the convent building, and stole the boat in the process, so they committed a civil crime as well. I guess the church thought it had to put its foot down. FWIW, “kidnap” actually is a compound word of “kid” for “child,” and “nap,” a regional variant of “nab,” for steal. So “nunnapping” would be a real word. I stuck in the hyphen, because the double nn looked odd. It’s not quite the same as sticking “-gate” from The Watergate Hotel onto any political scandal. ---
**Author:** ![goscuter1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a5b964/32.png) [@goscuter1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/goscuter1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/45 "2014-05-27T23:25:09Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > The threat of damnation was the way the church kept power for so many centuries. > [@](#): > > To be, or not to be, that is the question— > Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer > The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune, > Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles, > And by opposing end them? To die, to sleep— > No more; and by a sleep, to say we end > The Heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks > That Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation > Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep, > To sleep, perchance to Dream; Aye, there’s the rub, > **For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come, > When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, > Must give us pause. There’s the respect > That makes Calamity of so long life:** > For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time, > The Oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s Contumely, > The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay, > The insolence of Office, and the Spurns > That patient merit of the unworthy takes, > When he himself might his Quietus make > With a bare Bodkin? Who would these Fardels bear, > To grunt and sweat under a weary life, > **But that the dread of something after death, > The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn > No Traveler returns, Puzzles the will, > And makes us rather bear those ills we have, > Than fly to others that we know not of.** > Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all, Thus mothers and priests did make Slaves of us all. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Comstock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gordon\_Comstock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Comstock)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/46 "2014-05-28T09:08:03Z")
If you’re serious about being excommunicated then it seems that being [a woman and conducting a mass gets the job done.](http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/05/22/senior-figure-in-we-are-church-movement-is-excommunicated/) ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/47 "2014-05-28T14:19:40Z")
> [@runningdude](#): > > Excommunication is meant to direly warn them of the nature of whatever sin was committed. > > Excommunication is meant to motivate repentance, rather than to “consign them to Hell”. This is the heart of the issue. Excommunication doesn’t do any good for people asking to be excommunicated or who are lapsed Catholics. It is a punishment only for those who recognize the Catholic Church as _The Church_ and would respond to an excommunication with repentance. Otherwise, it would be like punishing a small child by refusing to make them brussels sprouts for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/48 "2014-05-28T14:22:08Z")
> [@Gordon\_Comstock](#): > > If you’re serious about being excommunicated then it seems that being [a woman and conducting a mass gets the job done.](http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/05/22/senior-figure-in-we-are-church-movement-is-excommunicated/) I thought you had to be a priest (or bishop) to conduct a mass? If so, wasn’t the delict the fact that she wasn’t a priest? Obviously, according to current canon law she can’t become a priest because she is a woman, but I think even a non-ordained man would be subject to excommunication for doing the same. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/49 "2014-05-28T15:26:48Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > This is the heart of the issue. Excommunication doesn’t do any good for people asking to be excommunicated or who are lapsed Catholics. It is a punishment only for those who recognize the Catholic Church as _The Church_ and would respond to an excommunication with repentance. > > Otherwise, it would be like punishing a small child by refusing to make them brussels sprouts for dinner. Or, more accurately paralleling the situation, punishing a small child that wants to leave the dinner table to go play in their bedroom by sending them to their bedroom (without any other conditions, like “timeout in the corner”.) Kind of “Br’er Rabbit and the Briar Patch”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/50 "2014-05-28T15:44:19Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > I thought you had to be a priest (or bishop) to conduct a mass? If so, wasn’t the delict the fact that she wasn’t a priest? Obviously, according to current canon law she can’t become a priest because she is a woman, but I think even a non-ordained man would be subject to excommunication for doing the same. Hand-washing at its finest: > [@](#): > > Bishop Manfred Scheuer of Innsbruck described the development as a “self-excommunication”, which he said was “not a victory, but always a defeat for the Church”. “The Church didn’t have a thing to do with excommunicating them, nosiree! They broke into our office in the middle of the night, stole the proper documents and forged a few of our signatures. It wasn’t our idea at all for them to be excommunicated…Really!” ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/51 "2014-05-28T19:35:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Hand-washing at its finest: “The Church didn’t have a thing to do with excommunicating them, nosiree! They broke into our office in the middle of the night, stole the proper documents and forged a few of our signatures. It wasn’t our idea at all for them to be excommunicated…Really!” From the church’s perspective, excommunication is simply the codification of the state that the parishioner has already attained via her actions. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/52 "2014-05-28T19:53:09Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > From the church’s perspective, excommunication is simply the codification of the state that the parishioner has already attained via her actions. > Powers &8^] The Church still decides who is and is not excommunicated-there is no computer that automatically spits out “_We Are Sorry, But You Have Been Excommunicated. If You Have Any Questions, Please Call 1-800-IMDAMND Between The Hours Of 8AM and 4:30pm Monday Thru Thursday._” notices. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/53 "2014-05-29T00:25:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The Church still decides who is and is not excommunicated-there is no computer that automatically spits out “_We Are Sorry, But You Have Been Excommunicated. If You Have Any Questions, Please Call 1-800-IMDAMND Between The Hours Of 8AM and 4:30pm Monday Thru Thursday._” notices. Some church offenses carry a penalty of automatic excommunication. There may not be a robocaller, but educated individuals who attempt to illicitly celebrate the Eucharist should not be “shocked” when the church all but kicks them out (and yes, they were not kicked out, but only barred from the sacraments, they still had to pay the German church tax). The tribunal merely reviews the facts of the case an issues a statement that the grounds for automatic excommunication were met. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290/54 "2014-05-29T00:29:14Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > This is the heart of the issue. Excommunication doesn’t do any good for people asking to be excommunicated or who are lapsed Catholics. It is a punishment only for those who recognize the Catholic Church as _The Church_ and would respond to an excommunication with repentance. > … You are exactly correct! I could not imagine a bishop debasing his office by going through stupid websites, looking up all the sacramental records for each of the hundred of people listed at hundreds of local parishes, and mailing them excommunication notices. Some bishops, sadly, have done plenty to debase their offices, but this excommunication thing would require way too much effort! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excommunication/687290.md?page=2)