# Excuse me, but doyou HAVE to make your sentences so hard to figure out?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [January 16, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228 "2010-01-16T20:19:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/1 "2010-01-16T20:19:06Z")
Elsewhere on the board, there’s a discussion going on about calling young girls pretty. I have an issue about the way one Doper expressed himself in a certain post in that thread. I’m opening a new thread because I don’t wish to hijack that one. I won’t link to the thread directly, nor to the post, because I don’t wish to be needlessly antagonistic. My issue is with the style of writing rather than any Doper.
Anyway…in response to this remark
> [@](#):
>
> Does this statement strike any of you as being indicative of some sort of sexually twisted or immature mindset?
the poster in question wrote
> [@](#):
>
> **That you feel this this common as dirt expression which is was often expressed by older men of a certain era as a compliment to female children needs to be deconstructed and teased into something inappropriate or an illumination of your father’s sexual inclinations is bizarre**.
Prompting me to remark
> [@](#):
>
> Commas are your friend. So are semi-colons. … By contrast, sentences like the one I quoted are nobody’s friend.
In reply, another poster wrote:
> [@](#):
>
> I think some people need better reading skills. The quoted sentence is long, but perfectly fine.
Bored yet? Well, in case you aren’t, here is my reply.
I didn’t say the sentence was ungrammatical. Rather, it is constructed in such a way that it is needlessly difficult to parse.
The sentence is 46 words long. Its only essential words are _That is bizarre_. The subject is forty-four words long; the predicate is two words long. The complex subject comprises multiple prepositional phrases and at least two separate subordinate clauses. You embed the simple subject in a nine-word phrase, followed by a subordinate clause lacking any markers of punctuation; that clause is eighteen words long and includes not one, not two, but **three** prepositional phrases. And you’re not even done with the complex subject at that point. No, there’s another one coming of the same sort.
The sentence is needlessly difficult to parse. Its complexity is disproportionate to its meaning. That is bad writing, in my opinion.
I will grant that my initial remark was snarky. But am I wrong in thinking that the 46-word sentence is dense and convoluted?
This thread has been brought to you by the campaign for obsessive and stupid OPs. Skald the Rhymer, president.
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### Author:  [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/2 "2010-01-16T20:21:56Z")
I had no particular reaction to it other than the “is was” typo. While commas or other kinds of restructuring could have been usefully employed, I didn’t have any feeling of the sentence as written being a burden; I think you’re being overly sensitive.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/3 "2010-01-16T20:22:21Z")
Eschew phraseological obfuscation and non-illuminatory grammatical structuralism!
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/4 "2010-01-16T20:25:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Eschew phraseological obfuscation and non-illuminatory grammatical structuralism!
Holy Zeus. I must have left the door to the resurrection chamber open. Now [Strunk the Revenant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strunk) is on the loose!
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/5 "2010-01-16T20:26:08Z")
Wow. Now we’re pitting people over grammar disputes?
What do you think about wearing white shoes after Labor Day?
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### Author:  [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/6 "2010-01-16T20:26:40Z")
If this were a publication, and you were his editor, hell yeah.
Send that shit back, have him rewrite it or rewrite it yourself. No way that sentence should see the light of day.
For a message board, not that big of a deal.
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### Author:  [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enter_the_Flagon)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/7 "2010-01-16T20:50:29Z")
It’s a burdensome sentence to parse, no doubt. Why should reading such a simple thought be so much more work than writing it?
My default position is that any author too lazy to create an easily-understood sentence is usually also too lazy to create a well-thought-out opinion, and the time it takes to understand their musings is often wasted.
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/8 "2010-01-16T20:57:59Z")
It could stand a couple of commas. On the other hand, this passive-aggressive pitting of yours could stand a link to the post that inspired it.
Now I have to pit you both.
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### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/9 "2010-01-16T20:58:07Z")
You ever see _[The Ladykillers](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335245/)_? You just have to read sentences like the one in the OP in the voice of Tom Hanks doing Professor Dorr. Then it’s funny.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/10 "2010-01-16T20:58:58Z")
[That’s how I roll.](http://freshartlongisland.blogspot.com/2009/05/thats-how-i-roll-motherfucker.html)
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### Author:  [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/11 "2010-01-16T21:11:51Z")
> [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](#):
>
> It’s a burdensome sentence to parse, no doubt. Why should reading such a simple thought be so much more work than writing it?
>
> My default position is that any author too lazy to create an easily-understood sentence is usually also too lazy to create a well-thought-out opinion, and the time it takes to understand their musings is often wasted.
I know entire academic disciplines, thousands of published writers strong, who would disagree.
Although if you tried to pin them down on whether complex thought actually _requires_ convoluted language, all but a few dedicated linguist-philosophers would change the subject on you so fast you’d smell the burning rubber.
What it comes down to - at least in academia - is that the world of ideas is an elite club, and the steeper the intellectual dues, the better. Clarity, often, amounts to giving away the store.
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/12 "2010-01-16T21:13:55Z")
Or, “You must be at least THIS turgid to ride this ride.”
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### Author:  [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/13 "2010-01-16T21:17:54Z")
Male him diagram the sentence…THAT’ll show him.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/14 "2010-01-16T21:18:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Wow. Now we’re pitting people over grammar disputes?
Ack!
This is supposed to be in MPSIMS!
I didn’t intend to pit anyone. You’ll notice that I neither named named nor linked to threads. I didn’t even curse, unless you count taking the name of Zeus in vain.
If a passing mod could put this where it belongs, that’d be great.
> [@](#):
>
> What do you think about wearing white shoes after Labor Day?
I don’t wear white shoes, period. Long story involving accidentally wiping out the Smurf village. I would relate the tale but it makes me sad.
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> It could stand a couple of commas. On the other hand, this passive-aggressive pitting of yours could stand a link to the post that inspired it.
>
> Now I have to pit you both.
As mentioned above, I honestly didn’t mean to put this in the Pit, which is why I did not link to the postor thread. I have nothing against the Doper who wrote the original sentence. Besides, I’m sure I’ve penned much worse things just this week.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/15 "2010-01-16T21:20:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> Ack!
>
> This is supposed to be in MPSIMS!
>
> I didn’t intend to pit anyone. You’ll notice that I neither named named nor linked to threads. I didn’t even curse, unless you count taking the name of Zeus in vain.
>
> If a passing mod could put this where it belongs, that’d be great.
Moving thread from The BBQ Pit to MPSIMS.
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### Author:  [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enter_the_Flagon)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/16 "2010-01-16T21:36:31Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#):
>
> I know entire academic disciplines, thousands of published writers strong, who would disagree.
>
> Although if you tried to pin them down on whether complex thought actually _requires_ convoluted language, all but a few dedicated linguist-philosophers would change the subject on you so fast you’d smell the burning rubber.
>
> What it comes down to - at least in academia - is that the world of ideas is an elite club, and the steeper the intellectual dues, the better. Clarity, often, amounts to giving away the store.
Quite right - I should have qualified that I was referring to the SDMB, where such posturing is rarely encountered, even among the numerous PhD-types found hereabouts.
I don’t know if it arises from a general desire for less formality, or a sense of egalitarianism, but I appreciate that the thoughts presented on this site don’t usually require multiple readings to discern their content. Here’s to youse guys. 🆒
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/17 "2010-01-16T21:39:40Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#):
>
> Clarity, often, amounts to giving away the store.
If only the author of the 46-word sentence had made such eloquent use of commas.
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Eschew…!
Bless you.
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### Author:  [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/18 "2010-01-16T21:45:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> I didn’t even curse, unless you count taking the name of Zeus in vain.
And I do…
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/19 "2010-01-16T21:47:01Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#):
>
> And I do…
It’s not like I took the name of Blessed, Wise, Valorous, Chaste, and Beautiful Athena in vain. I mean, seriously, does ANYBODY like Zeus?
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### Author:  [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-but-doyou-have-to-make-your-sentences-so-hard-to-figure-out/525228/20 "2010-01-16T21:59:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> I mean, seriously, does ANYBODY like Zeus?
A white, middle-aged (well middle -aged for immortals, I spose) male with ultimate power? On the Dope? You really have to ask?😛
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