# Excuse Me, Right-Wing Radio Pundits... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634 "2009-09-02T14:28:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/41 "2009-09-04T16:04:56Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Of course I stand by it! It is just as I said: the OP was making fun of the right for worrying about the very thing my post showed was already going on, thus I laughed at him while posting a link showing that. The fact that certain people here chose to view that as my taking delight in the suffering of others speaks to their (your) personal bias…also like I said. Ah, I see my mistake - one I seem to make a lot regarding your posts. Dummy me, I responded to what you actually said rather than what you MEANT. I get it now. :: massive rolleyes :: _ouch_ ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/42 "2009-09-04T16:11:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > People are dying right now in Canada and the U.K. because of wait times, which have gotten so bad that even the Canadian Supreme Court has decreed that people can seek private care for conditions otherwise covered by the government there (something which would otherwise be illegal; under Canadian law people can only seek outside help for conditions the government doesn’t cover. And many more are dying in the United States because they lack insurance, or the insurance they do have is inadequate. And way to misinterpret another countries court decisions. The decision you refer to was in 2005, and was in reference to ONE province (Quebec). Since then, wait times have improved, and > [@](#): > > The result: the clamour for radical change has subsided into low-level background anxiety. For federal and provincial politicians, health waits have dropped below issues like the environment and law enforcement among agenda-dominating items. [Cite](http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0013187) I know it’s very hard for you to avoid twisting things around your own ideological framework, but do try, OK? And stop using my country as an example when you don’t know the first thing about it, mkay? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/43 "2009-09-04T16:14:08Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Your post showed no such thing. Well, this _is_ supposed to be the smartest message board on the internet. Perhaps I took that supposition too much to heart. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/44 "2009-09-04T16:32:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And stop using my country as an example when you don’t know the first thing about it, mkay? Dare I say it…_BWAHAHAHA_! So your system has improved to the point where Supreme Court rulings about ridiculously long waits have been replaced by mere background anxiety. Now there’s a ringing endorsement if I ever heard one! And I notice you seem to have glossed over the other things I’ve mentioned about the Canadian health care system, like proposed cut-backs in necessary surgeries in Vancouver and the remarks of Canada’s incoming health care president to the tune that something has to be done about Canada’s current system and that most of Canada’s population has no idea how bad things are. These have all been in the news and I’ve posted links to them here on this board. Is it your position that I should be precluded from posting this information because I’m not from Canada? And if so, then how about you also attempt to preclude other posters on this board from pointing to it as an example of the ringing success of other countries’ government health care systems? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/45 "2009-09-04T17:31:44Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, this _is_ supposed to be the smartest message board on the internet. Perhaps I took that supposition too much to heart. So, your cite did show that the UK is engaged in the forced euthanasia of the elderly and disabled as a deliberate cost-cutting policy? Can you point out the part where it does this? Please show it to me clearly, because I am an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/46 "2009-09-04T19:37:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If everyone would kindly step down from their high-horses for a moment, it may become apparent that the laughter was aimed at the OP. > > But then you already knew that, didn’t you? You just thought you had a good excuse to play the EVIL CONSERVATIVE card and, being the honest and upright people of the liberal persuasion that you are, attempted to take full advantage of it. No, we just think you’re a sick, stupid fuck. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Why? What other explanation can there be for the people here who were (allegedly) so quick to believe I was laughing at/making fun of people dying in England when I was so clearly making fun of the OP by posting factual evidence of the existence of the very kind of thing that he/she was making fun of the right for being concerned about? > > People are dying right now in Canada and the U.K. because of wait times, which have gotten so bad that even the Canadian Supreme Court has decreed that people can seek private care for conditions otherwise covered by the government there (something which would otherwise be illegal; under Canadian law people can only seek outside help for conditions the government doesn’t cover. People are apparently dying right now in the U.K. because of premature government declarations of their terminality. The incoming president of the Canadian health care system has declared the situation there desperate and said that the average Canadian has no idea how bad things are. Cutbacks in necessary surgeries are being mulled in Vancouver. Etc., etc., et-fucking-cetera, and you fools continue to turn a blind eye to it and then seek to make fun of those of us who don’t. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/47 "2009-09-04T20:32:32Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > No, we just think you’re a sick, stupid fuck. Of course you do. I’m a conservative and you’ve drunk the Kool-Aid. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Cite? I’ve cited 'em before, including one in this thread. You can do a search of my posts if you really want to pretend they’ll have any impact on your so-called thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/48 "2009-09-04T20:36:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Of course you do. I’m a conservative and you’ve drunk the Kool-Aid. Awww, wookit da widdle mawduh! He thinks we think it’s his political ideology that makes him a drooling simpleton! That’s so cute! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/49 "2009-09-04T20:44:34Z")
I gathered it was the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/50 "2009-09-04T20:53:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > People are dying right now in Canada and the U.K. because of wait times, **which have gotten so bad that even the Canadian Supreme Court has decreed that people can seek private care for conditions otherwise covered by the government there (something which would otherwise be illegal; under Canadian law people can only seek outside help for conditions the government doesn’t cover**. (Bolding added) Nothing in Canadian law prevents you from getting health care anywhere you want to. In most provinces (health care is provided by the individual provinces) the government health care plan won’t \*\*pay \*\*for health care not provided by an approved doctor/hospital, but you are free to pay for it yourself. (Sounds just like a lot of US health insurance plans, doesn’t it?) The Supreme Court decision basically ruled against Quebec’s arbitrary exclusion of hospitals and clinics from the approved list simply because they were for-profit corporations. And I would hazard a guess that a much smaller percentage of patients are dying in Canada because of wait times than are dying in the US because of inability to pay. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/51 "2009-09-04T20:54:48Z")
Anyway, I’ve read several studies conducted by several academic institutions and published in several medical journals, and they all say the same thing. We get about the same results as Americans, for less. Factor in the downtrodden uninsured mass and it becomes apparent that our system serves us better than yours does you. What does any of this have to do with political ideology? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/52 "2009-09-04T21:02:23Z")
I recall reading that Canadian law forbade private care for conditions covered by the Canadian health care system, and that a Supreme Court ruling allowed exceptions in the case of extraordinarily long wait times. Is that not correct? Anyone can get any coverage they want for anything as long as they can pay for it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/53 "2009-09-04T21:20:51Z")
“Private care” means little. Any doctor’s office is private; it is the doctor’s practice. Said doctor bills the province for services rendered if the province is the patient’s insurer. The insurer need not be the province. If you want to opt out and pay Blue Cross or (sucker) Sun Life instead, go ahead. The province won’t mind. They even tell you how. So if I change insurers and go to the same doctor, I am receiving private care for things the province insures. That’s how it goes in Alberta. Other provinces may differ. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/54 "2009-09-04T21:23:19Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > …And I would hazard a guess that a much smaller percentage of patients are dying in Canada because of wait times than are dying in the US because of inability to pay. But they die free of interference from a socialist health care system! And they aren’t being forced to die on a government schedule, but can die on a timetable of their own choosing! Now, this probably doesn’t mean much to a whiny lefty nanny-stater, but to a _real_ American, this is vital! Not for nothing is the New Hampshire state motto Live Free and Die! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/55 "2009-09-04T21:26:57Z")
In all honesty I wouldn’t mind dying on my own timetable. I’m free for most of 2744, maybe I can squeeze it in then. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/56 "2009-09-05T00:21:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Of course you do. I’m a conservative and you’ve drunk the Kool-Aid. I do like that. Assuming that we disagree with your because of your ideology absolves you from having to accept that it’s you, personally, that we disagree with. And yet i **n the very same sentence** you do the same thing you accuse us of: assume that our opposing position is due entirely to our political affiliation (I’m assuming that’s what “drunk the Kool-Aid” means in this instance) rather than acknowledging that we might actually have some knowledge of the subject at hand. So you’re in denial AND a hypocrite. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/57 "2009-09-05T02:13:13Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > Ah, I see my mistake - one I seem to make a lot regarding your posts. Dummy me, I responded to what you actually said rather than what you MEANT. I get it now. > > :: massive rolleyes :: > > _ouch_ Like I said… ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/58 "2009-09-05T02:21:40Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So you’re in denial AND a hypocrite. Nice. You’re new here, aren’t you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/59 "2009-09-05T14:57:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Too firmly entrenched? Too many people willing to opt for free Band-Aids and flu shots at the expense of long waits, cut-backs, and underfunding for expensive, potentially life-saving treatment later on? Etc., etc.? > > A million people needing minor care for most of their lives can be pretty happy with “free” government health care. But when they get to the end of their lives, or they or a loved one develop serious health issues, and they can’t get treated for ten months to a year (assuming that the government will be able to pay for it in the first place), they are likely either to not be so enamored of UHC after all, or to adopt the same sort of fatalistic “shit happens” attitude that many of us here in the U.S. get excoriated for when we mention it in opposition to government UHC. :dubious: Are you reading Republican anti-health-care-reform talking points, or did you make this shit up on your own? Looking at the growing file of papers connected with our son’s epilepsy diagnosis and treatment, thinking of a dear friend’s experience with chemotherapy and radiation treatment for cancer, remembering my mother-in-law’s hip replacement and wondering how my father-in-law’s convalescent care stay is going, I can’t figure out which is more insane: the idea that most people rarely come in contact with expensive care (for themselves or for loved ones), or the idea that waiting lists of “ten months to a year” are the done thing or would be met by a fatalistic shrug of the shoulders. I’ve actually lived under two different health care systems (Norway and the US). Have you? Are you speaking from anything resembling personal experience, or just from combing the Internet for information that agrees with what you’ve already decided must be true? > [@](#): > > People are going to die no matter what system is in place. Um, no shit. Nobody gets out of this world alive :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634/60 "2009-09-06T13:30:08Z")
Most of the conservatives I know object to the idea that the health care system that is proposed is socialism,and it frightens them,most are from the Christian Right, yet the first Christians were not just socialists, but Communistic! Go figure!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/excuse-me-right-wing-radio-pundits/508634.md?page=4)