# Exec owes his life to marginally-competent jobseeker. Hire her? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 1, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101 "2010-11-01T17:11:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/1 "2010-11-01T17:11:01Z")
Obviously another Rhymer hypothetical. Again longer than I meant, but hey, I’ve got to do SOMETHING at lunch. 🙂 Here’s the sitch: **Jonathan Spenser** , the star of today’s story, is an unhappily single straight man in his early fifties. He works in the business-to-business sales department of a famous national corporation I’ll call **Parthenon Industries** because that’s the kind of geek I am. He is one of six regional sales directors. Under him work a dozen district sales managers, each, each of whom has a team of fifteen to twenty sales executives (the folks who actually deal with clients on a daily basis). Add on support staff, and there’s about two hundred fifty people working under his patch of the sky. Jonathan takes pains to be ethical. Being a fraternity brother or cousin may get someone a referral for an interview, but only if they’re qualified in the first place, and if they get the job he’s going to treat them exactly like everyone else in his hierarchy; and, unlike some sales managers and directors he could name, he absolutely refuses to trade advancement for personal or sexual favors. He frequently emphasizes to his staff the necessity of avoiding any appearance of impropriety. Technically, all hires, promotions, and fires require him to sign off; but practically speaking, when it comes to the people two levels down from him, he tends to defer to his managers’ recommendations unless he has a really good reason to intervene. Parthenon is hiring. In Jonathan’s region, there are fifteen open sales positions and two administrative jobs. Jonathan’s personal assistant job is one of hte latter, but he doesn’t plan to hire outside the company for that; he’s pretty much decided he wants that job to go to **Leslie** , admin for one fo the sales groups and best of the bunch, though he hasn’t promised her the promotion. There’s maybe three hundred applicants for the sales jobs and forty for the admins. Looking over the list of sales applicants, Jonathan sees the name **Amy Winters**. This immediately gets his attention, because five years earlier, while on a boat tour, he had an accident, fell overboard, and nearly drowned. Another vacationer–a beautiful recent college grad hight Amy Winters-- leapt in after him, pulled him to safety, and resuscitated him, getting injured herself in the process. Jonathan thanked Amy at the time but she got no other reward. A little research verifies that the two Amys are one, and that she’s still hot. But for several reasons she was not on the track to get a job. For one thing, her resume was amateurish (who puts a photo on it, for god’s sake!) The application process involves some standardized testing, and Amy’s scores were less than impressive; she passed, but there’s sixty people who performed better. Nor did she wow her interviewer, who notes that Amy positively stank of desperation, even mentioning that she’s in danger of losing her house; that’s not something he wants in a sales person. She’s been out of work two years, has exhausted her unemployment benefits, and is deeply in debt – all red flags at Parthenon. It’s an accident that Jonathan saw Amy’s résumé at all; it was misfiled, as she wasn’t supposed to be among the final group of candidates. It is within Jonathan’s authority to intervene here without being gainsaid. Should he? If so, what shape should that intervention take? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/2 "2010-11-01T17:18:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > For one thing, her resume was amateurish (who puts a photo on it, for god’s sake!) I believe, but am not certain, that this is common in some European countries. As for the rest of the hypo - does Jonathan have the authority to conduct follow-on interviews? If so, a good compromise solution might be for him to do that here. He could use the opportunity to point out some of the weaknesses in Amy’s application, if he wished, and ask her directly how she’d overcome them. In a sense, this is just a case of Jonathan knowing an applicant from a non-professional setting, and thus knowing that she has some admirable quality (in this case, balls) that didn’t come through in the application package. I wouldn’t want him to give her the job outright because of that, but I see nothing wrong with giving her another chance to demonstrate she’d be a good fit. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/3 "2010-11-01T17:26:02Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > I believe, but am not certain, that this is common in some European countries. While it is not safe to assume that all my hypotheticals are peopled by atheists, it IS safe to assume that they’re set in Memphis. 🙂 Or Narnia. Or Middle-Earth. Or maybe Barsoom. But certainly nowhere near Wales. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/4 "2010-11-01T17:33:41Z")
He should hire the chick who the chicked who saved his ass from drowning because she saved his ass from drowning. It’s the least he can do. It’s not like being a personal assistant is a dream job anyway, nor does it require any kind of special training or skills. She isn’t going to landing planes or doing surgery. She’s going to be ordering his lunch and making appointments. It’s monkey work. Why waste it on somebody who actually has ability or talent? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/5 "2010-11-01T17:44:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He should hire the chick who the chicked who saved his ass from drowning because she saved his ass from drowning. It’s the least he can do. It’s not like being a personal assistant is a dream job anyway, nor does it require any kind of special training or skills. She isn’t going to landing planes or doing surgery. She’s going to be ordering his lunch and making appointments. It’s monkey work. Why waste it on somebody who actually has ability or talent? :: tessers over umbrella :: Your comments about personal assistants may result in some … anger. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/6 "2010-11-01T17:53:35Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > :: tessers over umbrella :: > > Your comments about personal assistants may result in some … anger. LOL. If it were me, she’d be my personal assistant, no question. If she really didn’t do a good job, I’d try to find her a more appropriate position in the company. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/7 "2010-11-01T17:59:27Z")
Her demonstrated lifesaving (and personal ass-risking) skills certainly deserve as much if not more consideration than some standardized (and likely game-able) testing. Hell, yes, intervene on her behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/8 "2010-11-01T18:03:58Z")
I wouldn’t displace Leslie’s promotion but I absolutely would get her on somewhere, particularly since it seems the major thing that’s holding her back is her current situation. (In my hypothetical her desperation affected her test scores too) Doesn’t give her a life pass, but she definitely has earned a chance to prove herself. I would feel the same way even if JS had been nice enough to reward her at the time of the event. PS, in this hyp0thetical JS is a bit of a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/9 "2010-11-01T18:05:54Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > LOL. > > If it were me, she’d be my personal assistant, no question. If she really didn’t do a good job, I’d try to find her a more appropriate position in the company. It my own fault for being imprecise, so I shan’t complain about persons who misunderstood. But by _personal assistant_, I meant _Jonathan’s personal secretary for work purposes_, not _someone who follows Britney Spears around to make sauna appointments_. I am reliably informed that a high-ranking exec’s secretary’s job is not nearly as easy as some persons think. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/10 "2010-11-01T18:06:04Z")
Even if I didn’t give her the job she applied for I would do my damndest to make sure I can find a spot in the company for her. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/11 "2010-11-01T18:07:29Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > I wouldn’t displace Leslie’s promotion but I absolutely would get her on somewhere, particularly since it seems the major thing that’s holding her back is her current situation. (In my hypothetical her desperation affected her test scores too) > > Doesn’t give her a life pass, but she definitely has earned a chance to prove herself. > > I would feel the same way even if JS had been nice enough to reward her at the time of the event. > > PS, in this hyp0thetical JS is a bit of a jerk. How is Jonathan Spenser (with an S, like the poet) a jerk? She may not have even ASKED for a reward. There are some persons who wouldn’t. Spenser-the-detective wouldn’t ask for a reward for saving someone’s life, nor take one unless he were already employed by said life-savee. 🙂 I hadn’t thought about the impact her desperation would have on her test scores, but you have a good point. If she’s nearly to the point of being evicted, her Microsoft Excel skills may have been affected. And certainly she might not interview well. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/12 "2010-11-01T18:10:08Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It my own fault for being imprecise, so I shan’t complain about persons who misunderstood. But by _personal assistant_, I meant _Jonathan’s personal secretary for work purposes_, not _someone who follows Britney Spears around to make sauna appointments_. I am reliably informed that a high-ranking exec’s secretary’s job is not nearly as easy as some persons think. It would still be pretty menial position. Not an offer you want to insult a truly valuable and talented employee with. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/13 "2010-11-01T18:11:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Her demonstrated lifesaving (and personal ass-risking) skills certainly deserve as much if not more consideration than some standardized (and likely game-able) testing. > > Hell, yes, intervene on her behalf. Life-saving is rarely a sales or secretarial job function in my company. Is it in yours? If so, are you posting from the BauerVerse? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/14 "2010-11-01T18:12:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It would still be pretty menial position. Not an offer you want to insult a truly valuable and talented employee with. Oh, no, not at my company. It isn’t a job you’d want a Harvard MBA for, but it’s certainly above-par for new college graduates. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/15 "2010-11-01T18:14:28Z")
I can’t see being somebody’s personal bitch as a great job, but I’ve never been able to buy into much of anything about corporate culture. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/16 "2010-11-01T19:05:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I can’t see being somebody’s personal bitch as a great job, but I’ve never been able to buy into much of anything about corporate culture. It’s not necessarily a great job but it can be pretty good in some situations. I was a temp admin to a fairly senior executive at an insurance company for a month between high school and university. I wasn’t there long enough to get any important projects but I assisted some of the other admins and I have no doubt that being a good admin takes skill. I also managed to use the opportunity to network and got 2 summer jobs in other departments out of the experience. The position may not be high-status but it’s not a bad job and you can use it to get a foot in the door at the company if you’re aiming higher. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/17 "2010-11-01T19:18:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I can’t see being somebody’s personal bitch as a great job, but I’ve never been able to buy into much of anything about corporate culture. Secretary ≠ Personal bitch. Just so you know. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/18 "2010-11-01T19:27:10Z")
I see no point in arguing but I will say that being a personal assistant to a good boss is fabulous. You get a lot of power and not as much responsibility and you really feel like you are a team. I work for a not for profit, of course, so i feel like we are really helping our target constituency, by working together so well. Alas, those days are behind me, since my boss is gone. Here’s hoping the new one is just as good. Anyway, I didn’t think he should consider her for the job, although maybe he should try to look for another one in the company. But I wasn’t glued to it and it makes one think, though, when everyone else is opposed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/19 "2010-11-01T19:28:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Life-saving is rarely a sales or secretarial job function in my company. Is it in yours? If so, are you posting from the BauerVerse? Dammit! _Hire that secretary or millions of people will die!_ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101/20 "2010-11-01T19:48:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > > > > Her demonstrated lifesaving (and personal ass-risking) skills certainly deserve as much if not more consideration than some standardized (and likely game-able) testing. > > > > > > Hell, yes, intervene on her behalf. > > > > Life-saving is rarely a sales or secretarial job function in my company. Is it in yours? If so, are you posting from the BauerVerse? > > Dammit! _Hire that secretary or millions of people will die!_ You are so very predictable. 😃 > [@Anaamika](#): > > I see no point in arguing but I will say that being a personal assistant to a good boss is fabulous. You get a lot of power and not as much responsibility and you really feel like you are a team. I work for a not for profit, of course, so i feel like we are really helping our target constituency, by working together so well. I’d not necessarily give her the admin job, actually. I’ve seen smart people struggle at it, and it’s not easy; nor are the skills involved just a lesser version of being a good salesperson or executive. I think the OP says that Jonathan has 200+ subordinates, and he’s one of six regional sales directors; it’s clearly a good-sized company. Just keeping his schedule in order is going to be nightmare. And, of course, she didn’t apply for that job, but rather the one she thought herself possibly qualified for. And there’s another issue. Jonathan must be 20-some years older than her (she was a recent college grad 5 years previous, and he’s early 50s), and she’s hot, while he’s unhappily single. Moving her into that job is going to look hinky; it will give the impression he’s hiring his honey. That’s not an impression he’ll wan t to give. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I didn’t think he should consider her for the job, although maybe he should try to look for another one in the company. But I wasn’t glued to it and it makes one think, though, when everyone else is opposed. Assuming my best sales manager were somebody I could trust, I’d give Amy a sales job on that person’s team with the understanding that, while she is not un-fireable and should have to become competent, I would consider it a personal favor if the trusted manager were to work hard with her to make her competent. Jonathan owes her the second-hugest debt I can imagine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exec-owes-his-life-to-marginally-competent-jobseeker-hire-her/559101.md?page=2)