# Executed child found to be innocent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549 "2014-12-18T04:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/221 "2014-12-25T22:46:33Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > And who gets to decide who lives and who is deserving of death? The state in their function as duly appointed representatives of the people. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/222 "2014-12-25T22:47:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why is the only other alternative is that they be corpses? Either they must be alive, or they must be dead. Which state is preferable? > [@](#): > > How many corpses would Canada have to produce to reach “civilized” status for you? As many of their citizenry as that deserved to die for their crimes. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/223 "2014-12-25T22:50:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As many of their citizenry as that deserved to die for their crimes. And when it’s YOU that gets strapped onto that deathbed, either by accident or by prosecutorial design? Do you calmly accept that because the court decided that you murdered someone, then it must be true? Do you put that much trust in the infallibility of the government? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/224 "2014-12-25T23:06:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > His behavior marks him as a killer. I get that you find his behaviour (as reported by witnesses, I gather) odd, possibly even unseemly, but how does it prove he’s a killer who should be killed? To whom did he allegedly tell the cologne story? > [@](#): > > He killed his daughters, and his behavior is far more damning proof of that than anything else. I’m not personally keen with replacing “beyond a reasonable doubt” with “he’s acting guilty.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/225 "2014-12-25T23:50:52Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And when it’s YOU that gets strapped onto that deathbed, either by accident or by prosecutorial design? Do you calmly accept that because the court decided that you murdered someone, then it must be true? Do you put that much trust in the infallibility of the government? I’d fight it to the extent of my ability to do so, and I don’t care to pretend that in my final moments I’d be anything other than a pathetic crying animal. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/226 "2014-12-25T23:53:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > To whom did he allegedly tell the cologne story? [To the fire department;](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham#Evidence) > [@](#): > > On returning to the house after the fire in the company of fireman Ron Franks, Willingham said that he had been over earlier and poured flammable British Sterling cologne in the hallway from the bathroom to the bedroom in which the twins had died, because they had loved its smell when they were alive. [[6](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/death-by-fire/documents/police-statements-in-trial.html)] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/227 "2014-12-26T00:48:41Z")
And did they? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/228 "2014-12-26T01:13:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Why do Karla Homolka and Thomas Hamilton deserve to be alive? The purpose of the justice system is not to decide who lives and who dies. Perhaps it was thousands of years ago, but those were profoundly unjust societies. And I don’t believe a murderer’s death delivers any more justice than a murderer in prison for life. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/229 "2014-12-26T01:14:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Either they must be alive, or they must be dead. Which state is preferable? Alive, and in prison for life. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/230 "2014-12-26T04:16:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > These are ridiculous statements. Your views on what makes a society civilized are irrational. And I thought **Smapti** acknowledged his own irrationality on this subject and promised not to make these arguments anymore. **Bricker** and **Dr. Deth** got me hopeful for an interesting thread, but this same argument with an extremely fringe viewpoint is not interesting. Please, **Smapti** , if you’re going to argue, come up with something new. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/231 "2014-12-26T12:12:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [List of Juvenile offenders executed in the United States since 1976.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_juvenile_offenders_executed_in_the_United_States_since_1976) > From [this site:](http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/studies-racial-discrimination-jury-selection-continues-death-penalty-cases) Hmmm…perhaps white people have a greater sense of justice? A lower tolerance for murder? A greater value for innocent lives? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/232 "2014-12-26T12:13:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The purpose of the justice system is not to decide who lives and who dies. Perhaps it was thousands of years ago, but those were profoundly unjust societies. Says…?? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/233 "2014-12-26T13:22:36Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Hmmm…perhaps white people have a greater sense of justice? A lower tolerance for murder? A greater value for innocent lives? White people? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/234 "2014-12-26T14:02:48Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Hmmm…perhaps white people have a greater sense of justice? A lower tolerance for murder? A greater value for innocent lives? Nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/235 "2014-12-26T14:57:38Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Hmmm…perhaps white people have a greater sense of justice? A lower tolerance for murder? A greater value for innocent lives? I don’t know your posting history. Please tell me this is supposed to be ironic. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/236 "2014-12-26T15:00:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Karla Homolka is a free woman and not a corpse, so yes, Canada is not civilized. > > Thomas Hamilton, if he had not killed himself, would be alive today, so yes, the UK is not civilized. hahahahahahaha ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/237 "2014-12-28T00:43:44Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I don’t know your posting history. Please tell me this is supposed to be ironic. He’s also an admitted Holocaust denier, so this kind of thing is probably par for the course. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/238 "2014-12-29T16:06:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Ahem”, _hell_. For what possible reason did you refrain from providing that link when you originally made post #184? Why did you wait until you received angry reactions to pull your stupid little “gotcha”? Personally, I think these “gotcha” games add interest and even a bit of value to threads. Because they wouldn’t work at all if the targets would respond respectfully with requests for cites. They only work when - as was the case here - the response is to deny outright that the assertion was true and accuse the poster of making it up. Which shows something, I think. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/239 "2014-12-29T16:56:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The assertion you made does not come close to jiving with the entirety of the article. But thank you for, at least, providing some citation. In the future, unless you’re actually trying to play gotcha games, it would be helpful to actually provide the supporting evidence at the same time as you make an assertion. People who are grieving act _very strangely._ Nothing he did was in any way suspicious. And he did have burns and was prevented from going back in at least once. His only crime here was not thinking clearly and logically during a disastrous tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/240 "2014-12-29T18:34:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [QUOTE=Czarcasm] > > “Ahem”, hell. For what possible reason did you refrain from providing that link when you originally made post #184? Why did you wait until you received angry reactions to pull your stupid little “gotcha”? Personally, I think these “gotcha” games add interest and even a bit of value to threads. [/QUOTE] And more than a bit of entertainment as well. “How DARE you react to my angry demands for a cite with a cite!!!” is a richly humorous attitude to strike, at least from where I sit. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549.md?page=13)