# Executed child found to be innocent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549 "2014-12-18T04:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/21 "2014-12-18T11:50:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He was exonerated, right? The system works. Seriously? The fact that Yarris, and others, have been exonerated shows that it’s possible to convict innocent people. Do you honestly believe that all innocents that have been convicted were all exonerated before execution? Do you honestly believe that there were no cases like Yarris’ before the invention of DNA identification technology? Do you honestly believe that DNA evidence is even relevant in _every_ murder case? Do you believe that the child who was the subject of the OP actually was guilty? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/22 "2014-12-18T12:09:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Cite that an innocent person has been executed in the US in this century? You said it can’t happen. I don’t need to show that it has happened (though it probably has) to believe that it can happen. Cite that it is impossible for this to occur? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/23 "2014-12-18T12:11:42Z")
Here’s a case where a man was executed in 2004 for three murders in 1991. It now appears that there were no murders at all. Accidental deaths were misinterpreted as murders. Does this constitute a sufficiently recent enough case where an innocent man was executed to answer your question?: > **[Cameron Todd Willingham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham)** > > Cameron Todd Willingham (January 9, 1968 – February 17, 2004) was an American man who was convicted and executed for the murder of his three young children by arson at the family home in Corsicana, Texas, on December 23, 1991. Since Willingham's 2004 execution, significant controversy has arisen over the legitimacy of the guilty verdict and the interpretation of the evidence that was used to convict him of arson and murder. > Willingham's case and the investigative techniques were criticized by ... [http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/24 "2014-12-18T12:17:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Executing an innocent person can’t happen today. :eek: 😕 How do you support this contention in light of the numerous very recent cases in which we know innocent people were executed? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/25 "2014-12-18T12:18:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t think that’s the strongest argument against the DP. > . It is for me, because, despite not believing that the death penalty is a deterrent, I have no theoretical issue with executing a murderer (depending on circumstances). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/26 "2014-12-18T12:41:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Cite that an innocent person has been executed in the US in this century? [Here you go.](http://camerontoddwillingham.com/) The idea that it can’t happen today requires a childlike faith in the impartiality of the judge, the integrity of the prosecutor, the competence of the defense attorney, and the lack of prejudice on the part of the jury. Maybe if they all were to arrive to court riding purple unicorns that fart lollipops and sugarplums, that faith would be justified. In the real world, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/27 "2014-12-18T13:22:24Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Seriously? The fact that Yarris, and others, have been exonerated shows that it’s possible to convict innocent people. Do you honestly believe that all innocents that have been convicted were all exonerated before execution? Do you honestly believe that there were no cases like Yarris’ before the invention of DNA identification technology? Do you honestly believe that DNA evidence is even relevant in _every_ murder case? I believe DNA is the reason we don’t execute innocent people anymore, and that in the absence of DNA evidence, incontrovertible proof, or a confession, the death penalty should not be applied. > [@](#): > > Do you believe that the child who was the subject of the OP actually was guilty? Probably not, but a wrongful execution under a corrupt regime almost a hundred years ago does not make the death penalty today unjust. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/28 "2014-12-18T13:24:53Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Here’s a case where a man was executed in 2004 for three murders in 1991. It now appears that there were no murders at all. Accidental deaths were misinterpreted as murders. Does this constitute a sufficiently recent enough case where an innocent man was executed to answer your question?: > > [Cameron Todd Willingham - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham) > > [Trial by Fire | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire) Willingham was undeniably guilty, as evidenced by his confessing to the crime to multiple people on multiple occasions, so no, it doesn’t answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/29 "2014-12-18T13:26:20Z")
DNA evidence is not perfect. DNA samples can be at a crime scene for trivial reasons. The absence of DNA doesn’t mean someone is innocent. Samples get stored incorrectly and often times not tested. Chain of custody issues can lead to it bring excluded. Even now judges have blocked DNA evidence in appeals despite its potential to exonerate. Confessions can be, and have shown to be, coerced. Eye witnesses are often incorrect. The justice system is comprised of faulty, normal human beings. It will never be perfect. It was believed the justice system was just then. What will we know in 10 years that will give doubt to today’s system? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/30 "2014-12-18T13:29:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Willingham was undeniably guilty, as evidenced by his confessing to the crime to multiple people on multiple occasions, so no, it doesn’t answer my question. Cite that he confessed multiple times on multiple occasions? The only thing I found was that another inmate says Willingham confessed to him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/31 "2014-12-18T13:32:23Z")
Please note that, as in the case I started this thread with, family members of victims will actively and vigorously fight investigations of possible injustice not because they think there is such a preponderance of evidence that an investigation doesn’t seem justified, but because they want to leave the past in the past-they want “closure”. The courts have given them someone to punish, and they want to get on with their lives. There is also the possibility that they, and the authorities, are afraid of the guilt they would feel from locking up and/or executing the wrong person-if a mistake is never found out, it is almost as if it never happened at all. It takes herculean effort to look into these cases because of the active opposition every step of the way. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/32 "2014-12-18T13:47:21Z")
Not that Smapti will consider it, but [here is another.](http://www.ncadp.org/pages/wrongful-executions) > [@](#): > > Coles admitted to carrying a .38 that night and several other witnesses implicated Coles as the shooter. Yet Coles was never treated as a suspect. Davis was convicted of murder based on scant physical evidence and the testimony of nine witnesses, seven of whom later recanted their testimony or admitted it was false. His case drew attention across the globe and sparked an international outcry to save his life. Public figures including President Jimmy Carter, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Sister Helen Prejean, Pope Benedict XVI, Harry Belafonte, 51 members of Congress, and former FBI director William S. Sessions spoke out against the execution. More than 250 rallies, teach-ins, silent vigils, and other events were held in cities all over the world to protest his execution. Amnesty International and other advocacy groups delivered a record number of petitions — more than 630,000 — to the Georgia Board of Pardons and Parole requesting a stay of execution. Troy Anthony Davis was put to death on September 21, 2011 So 7 of 9 witnesses recanted their testimony, a former FBI director speaks out against the execution along with the pope and a president. Of course, next to Smapti, these guys are all chopped liver. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/33 "2014-12-18T13:47:37Z")
And then there is stuff like this > **[Massachusetts crime lab scandal explodes](https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/massachusetts-crime-lab-scandal-explodes/6027.article)** > > A second Massachusetts state chemist has been charged with evidence tampering after more than 300 convicted inmates have been released This forensic lab chemist falsified results. Just one more reason I’m against the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/34 "2014-12-18T13:52:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Probably not, but a wrongful execution under a corrupt regime almost a hundred years ago does not make the death penalty today unjust. 2014-1944=70 years. Not even 3/4 of a century. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/35 "2014-12-18T13:53:02Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > :eek: 😕 > > How do you support this contention in light of the numerous very recent cases in which we know innocent people were executed? Could you please cite those numerous and very recent cases in which we know that innocent people were executed? That is, I would like cites that [ul][li]the cases were “numerous” - I would say more than 10, but am open to some lesser number providing more than two or three[/li][li]the cases were 'very recent" - let’s say in the last decade[/li][li]that the people were factually innocent, and that we “know” this[/li][li]that they were executed.[/ul][/li]I am assuming you mean in the US. So, ten cases in the last decade in which we know for certain that those who were executed were innocent. Please note that not being executed is different from being executed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/36 "2014-12-18T13:57:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Could you please cite those numerous and very recent cases in which we know that innocent people were executed? > > That is, I would like cites that > [ul][li]the cases were “numerous” - I would say more than 10, but am open to some lesser number providing more than two or three[/li][li]the cases were 'very recent" - let’s say in the last decade[/li][li]that the people were factually innocent, and that we “know” this[/li][li]that they were executed.[/ul][/li]I am assuming you mean in the US. > > So, ten cases in the last decade in which we know for certain that those who were executed were innocent. > > Please note that not being executed is different from being executed. > > Regards, > Shodan What do _you_ mean by “know”? What are your criteria? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/37 "2014-12-18T13:57:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Cite that he confessed multiple times on multiple occasions? The only thing I found was that another inmate says Willingham confessed to him. His ex-wife also says he confessed to her. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/38 "2014-12-18T13:58:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What do _you_ mean by “know”? What are your criteria? You would have to ask **Frylock** what he meant by “know”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/39 "2014-12-18T14:00:24Z")
He spent as much time phrasing and coding that post than it would take to look stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/40 "2014-12-18T14:01:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You would have to ask **Frylock** what he meant by “know”. > > Regards, > Shodan No. I am asking you what would satisfy you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549.md?page=3)