# Executed child found to be innocent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549 "2014-12-18T04:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/121 "2014-12-20T01:29:24Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Innocent people on death row who are lucky enough to have their cases re-opened in light of new evidence that exonerates them aren’t executed. Any innocent people who aren’t that lucky, we don’t know about by definition. But statistically we can prove that such people must exist, in fact with the right data and modeling we might even be able to estimate how many there are with a certain degree of confidence. But we still won’t be able to say which particular one is innocent. The defenders of the Death Penalty, just like the defenders of Big Tobacco 30 years ago, can take advantage of the general public’s lack of intuitive understanding of statistics to cloud the issue. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/122 "2014-12-20T02:05:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I believe DNA is the reason we don’t execute innocent people anymore . . . And here I’d been hoping [#8](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17986845&postcount=8) was a joke. See: [Framed by Forensics](http://longform.org/posts/framed-by-forensics) While DNA evidence is, in the abstract, better than fingerprints and ballistics, there are so many ways it can be misused. People hate to see someone get away with murder, and jumping to conclusions is all too human. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/123 "2014-12-20T18:06:23Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I don’t believe this. I essentially think that if people were really considering what they’re about to do and what the consequences could be for them, threatening them with a 10 year sentence would be enough of a deterrent for most crimes. Nobody wants to wreck his life and spend his next ten years in a jail. People are killing other people over 1 000. Any rational person, even a psychopath who doesn't care about killing, would realize that 1000 isn’t even worth 6 months of jail time. Any reasonable individual thinking “wait, I might get caught and spend the next year in jail” would forget about the killing and the $ 1000. If even the risk of a life sentence doesn’t deter them, adding a death penalty won’t, either. > > A jail sentence doesn’t deter them not because it’s not harsh enough, but because they don’t think they’ll be caught, or more likely don’t think at all. You can threaten them with 20 years, with a life sentence, with death…it won’t change a thing because they’ll keep not thinking or at least not fearing the consequences. Only when they’ll actually get caught will they begin to worry about the sentence and be frightened by the death penalty. Not before the crime is being committed, when fear would actually serve a purpose. > > Basically, I believe that in the overwhelming majority of cases, no sentence above some relatively low level is a deterrent. People are going to be deterred by 10 years or they aren’t going to be deterred at all. You’re missing the point. The point is that the degree to which the DP acts as a deterrent is lessened by moving the punishment so far away from the crime. It would have maximum deterrence effect (whatever maximum X is) but having it linked closer and closer to the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/124 "2014-12-20T18:37:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You’re missing the point. The point is that the degree to which the DP acts as a deterrent is lessened by moving the punishment so far away from the crime. It would have maximum deterrence effect (whatever maximum X is) but having it linked closer and closer to the crime. How close to sentencing do you think the execution should be? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/125 "2014-12-20T20:07:01Z")
I read about this in a Ta-Nehisi Coates article once; very sad story. Simply an official lynching. Of a child no less. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/126 "2014-12-20T23:16:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Willingham was undeniably guilty, as evidenced by his confessing to the crime to multiple people on multiple occasions, so no, it doesn’t answer my question. Cite that Willingham confessed to anyone? Oh wait, you won’t find any; all you’ll find are people who say that he confessed. You’ll find no actual confession. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/127 "2014-12-20T23:19:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Willingham was undeniably guilty, as evidenced by his confessing to the crime to multiple people on multiple occasions, so no, it doesn’t answer my question. Really than please produce reliable cites of him “confessing”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/128 "2014-12-21T01:53:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite that Willingham confessed to anyone? Oh wait, you won’t find any; all you’ll find are people who say that he confessed. You’ll find no actual confession. How dare you question the reliability of jailhouse snitches. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/129 "2014-12-22T05:39:37Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How dare you question the reliability of jailhouse snitches. Yeah, what’s next, impugning the reputations of Catholic priests? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/130 "2014-12-22T12:16:45Z")
Here’s a list of people executed in the U.S. since 1989 whose cases are weak: > **[Executed But Possibly Innocent](https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence/executed-but-possibly-innocent)** > > The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment. Founded in 1990, the Center promotes informed discussion of the death penalty by preparing... Here’s a webpage with many links about why jailhouse snitches can’t be trusted: [http://www.law.northwestern.edu/legalclinic/wrongfulconvictions/issues/perjury/](http://www.law.northwestern.edu/legalclinic/wrongfulconvictions/issues/perjury/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/131 "2014-12-22T14:06:57Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite that Willingham confessed to anyone? Oh wait, you won’t find any; all you’ll find are people who say that he confessed. You’ll find no actual confession. Huh? What, specifically, do you think an “actual confession” is? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/132 "2014-12-22T14:31:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite that Willingham confessed to anyone? Oh wait, you won’t find any; all you’ll find are people who say that he confessed. You’ll find no actual confession. So in other words, he actually confessed to people. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/133 "2014-12-22T15:01:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So in other words, he actually confessed to people. You’re actually defending this kangaroo execution. Here I always though hindsight was 20/20; Christ, 70 years of distance and some are still blind. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/134 "2014-12-22T15:04:35Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > You’re actually defending this kangaroo execution. Yes, I’m defending the execution of an admitted triple murderer. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/135 "2014-12-22T15:06:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, I’m defending the execution of an admitted triple murderer. Apologies then. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/136 "2014-12-22T15:09:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So in other words, he actually confessed to people. For someone who seems to love law enforcement so much, you have little respect for due process and actual law. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/137 "2014-12-22T15:10:39Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > For someone who seems to love law enforcement so much, you have little respect for due process and actual law. Now you know the difference between loving law enforcement and loving law _enforcers_. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/138 "2014-12-22T15:14:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > " Executed child found to be innocent" > > Not actually true. The conviction was vacated. It was a writ of error _coram nobis_. I am pretty thoroughly familiar with the Jim Crow abuses of the legal system (such as the large number of black men executed - _executed_ - for “assault on a white woman,” which was a separate crime from rape and most sexual assault. There is absolutely no question that the whole era 1890-1940 or so is a stain on a stain on a mark of shame on US history and culture. But I am mildly disturbed at the assumption, implicit and sometimes stated, that no person of color committed a capital crime in that era - that all such trials, convictions and executions were racist injustice. Even in the OP case, the only exonerating evidence is that the boy’s sister or family says they were with him all that day… and of course, no actually guilty person has ever had a family member perjure themselves in an attempt to protect them. Vacating the conviction is probably the correct move. But saying the boy was innocent is pretty much baseless sentiment - we can never know the truth of that day. Maybe he \*did \*beat down two nasty little girls who called him names or threatened him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/139 "2014-12-22T15:22:12Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > For someone who seems to love law enforcement so much, you have little respect for due process and actual law. The man was given a fair trial before a jury of his peers. He was found guilty and sentenced to death. He received all the appeals that he was entitled to, none of them resulted in a different verdict, and his sentence was carried out. At what point was “due process and actual law” disregarded? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/140 "2014-12-22T15:23:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Now you know the difference between loving law enforcement and loving law _enforcers_. Well said. He seems to forget that law enforcers are made up of the same fallible human beings as any profession. If it’s reasonable to hold doctors, lawyers, mechanics etc to a professional standard and enforce consequences when there someone screws up or goes against policy, then why is unreasonable to hold LEO the same? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549.md?page=8)