# Executed child found to be innocent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549 "2014-12-18T04:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/161 "2014-12-22T19:47:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’ve got that backwards. Justice is the process by which the government protects us from the mob - you know, those guys in the streets chanting for dead cops. The government has more power to hurt me than any individual person can. The government can legally imprison me, detain me, and execute me. If we don’t make sure they use the power fairly and equally none of us are safe from mistreatment. It is my responsibility as a citizen to keep watch on my government. They are for the people, after all. Of course one of the powers the government has is to help maintain order, but that’s not what we’re talking about when we talk about the need to ensure justice is uniformly applied to give a just society. You are conflating different issues. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/162 "2014-12-22T20:41:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Even if there was no denial of due process, would _you_ say _justice_ was served? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/163 "2014-12-22T20:48:20Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I made no claim either way regarding this specific trial since I’m not familiar with all the info. I was responding to a specific post about a general concept about how confessions in general can require due process. > > You can take your Socratic method attempt to make a point somewhere else. If you have something to say just say it. I’m not in your class and don’t need you to teach me. Perhaps if your own posts were specific to the case under discussion, interlocutors would not be confused about the points you were trying to make and feel the need to extract specifics by means of questions. There was a general suggestion made above that this did not constitute a “real” confession. You appear to have buttressed that point by bringing up due process. If your comment was merely a general one, and not a suggestion of denial of due process in this specific case, then I agree with you that the admission of a confession requires observance of due process. Thank you for that cogent and timely reminder. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/164 "2014-12-22T20:50:47Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > The government has more power to hurt me than any individual person can. The government can legally imprison me, detain me, and execute me. Correct. And it’s _because_ the government can do those things that your neighbors aren’t capable of stringing you up for looking at their daughter funny. > [@](#): > > If we don’t make sure they use the power fairly and equally none of us are safe from mistreatment. Which they do. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/165 "2014-12-22T20:59:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps if your own posts were specific to the case under discussion, interlocutors would not be confused about the points you were trying to make and feel the need to extract specifics by means of questions. > > There was a general suggestion made above that this did not constitute a “real” confession. You appear to have buttressed that point by bringing up due process. If your comment was merely a general one, and not a suggestion of denial of due process in this specific case, then I agree with you that the admission of a confession requires observance of due process. Thank you for that cogent and timely reminder. Oh, please. Make a modicum of effort to read the quotes back if you’re confused. And even if you are, ask a direct question or make direct statement rather than your Socratic game of gotcha. > [@Smapti](#): > > Correct. And it’s _because_ the government can do those things that your neighbors aren’t capable of stringing you up for looking at their daughter funny. > > Which they do. Well, yeah. Who said they didn’t? We were discussing what justice is. But they require diligent oversight to make sure they don’t abuse such power. Diligent oversight includes citizens challenging the results of their actions to make sure they are serving the people well. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/166 "2014-12-23T01:17:24Z")
Smapti, have you read any of the links I provided you, or is it your contention that you already know so much that you don’t have to examine any new evidence, since you’re far smarter than any of us? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/167 "2014-12-23T02:29:27Z")
Why do you people still engage the guy who is, by his own admission, batshit on this whole subject of law enforcement and criminal justice? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/168 "2014-12-23T09:10:56Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Smapti, have you read any of the links I provided you, or is it your contention that you already know so much that you don’t have to examine any new evidence, since you’re far smarter than any of us? I’ve looked at then. Some of the older ones from before the advent of DNA testing may have been innocent. We’ve fixed that problem. Most of the others basically boil down to “the defendant said he was innocent, and nobody accused of murder would ever lie, so they must have executed an innocent man”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/169 "2014-12-23T15:09:47Z")
Why do you even _have_ the Death Penalty if you’re so bad at it? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/170 "2014-12-23T16:09:46Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Why do you people still engage the guy who is, by his own admission, batshit on this whole subject of law enforcement and criminal justice? Jayjay, you know better than to make it personal. Don’t do it again. That goes for the rest of you, as well. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/171 "2014-12-23T16:21:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’ve looked at then. Some of the older ones from before the advent of DNA testing may have been innocent. We’ve fixed that problem. Most of the others basically boil down to “the defendant said he was innocent, and nobody accused of murder would ever lie, so they must have executed an innocent man”. I think you’re assuming that every case has DNA testing as part of the evidence. I really doubt that is the case. DNA technology may be quite reliable, but it is possible to plant this evidence and it’s also quite likely that the evidence didn’t exist. Not every killer leaves DNA. Can you admit that mistakes can happen when DNA is not found? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/172 "2014-12-23T17:03:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’ve looked at then. Some of the older ones from before the advent of DNA testing may have been innocent. We’ve fixed that problem. False. DNA evidence doesn’t exist most of the time. > [@](#): > > Most of the others basically boil down to “the defendant said he was innocent, and nobody accused of murder would ever lie, so they must have executed an innocent man”. Nobody has said that.\*\*\* Nobody\*\*\* has said that. Can you even accurately state what our arguments have been? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/173 "2014-12-24T01:16:52Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’d wager that 90% of parents grieving their child’s death say something to that effect. I’ll take the over and win. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/174 "2014-12-24T09:31:26Z")
You’ve answered my question, Smapti. What you write has nothing to do with those links. You haven’t bothered to read them. Look, if you truly think we’re so worthless that you can’t spend time reading any of our links (or, apparently, any of our posts), then there’s no point in you contributing to a thread. You’re just wasting your time (and ours too, to be honest). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/175 "2014-12-24T16:21:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’ve got that backwards. Justice is the process by which the government protects us from the mob - you know, those guys in the streets chanting for dead cops. We need a government to protect us from crooks who pass off faked recordings as news? They don’t seem to be doing a very good job of it… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/176 "2014-12-24T16:24:40Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > We need a government to protect us from crooks who pass off faked recordings as news? They don’t seem to be doing a very good job of it… [And who faked this recording?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8&feature=youtu.be) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/177 "2014-12-24T16:48:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think you’re assuming that every case has DNA testing as part of the evidence. I really doubt that is the case. DNA technology may be quite reliable, but it is possible to plant this evidence and it’s also quite likely that the evidence didn’t exist. Not every killer leaves DNA. Can you admit that mistakes can happen when DNA is not found? Of course mistakes get made. That’s why the appeals process exists - to catch those mistakes before the sentence is carried out. As far as anyone can demonstrate, it’s been working flawlessly for the last several decades. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/178 "2014-12-24T16:52:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [And who faked this recording?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8&feature=youtu.be) Who here claimed it was faked? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/179 "2014-12-24T16:57:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [And who faked this recording?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8&feature=youtu.be) [Station staff, apparently.](http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/z-on-tv-blog/bal-wbff-apologizes-misleading-edit-videotape-of-protest-chant-20141222-story.html) > [@](#): > > WBFF (Fox45) apologized Monday night online and on-air for misleadingly editing and airing a video Sunday of a protest march… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/180 "2014-12-24T16:59:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who here claimed it was faked? The person I was answering, who apparently is still having trouble grasping the concept that there may have been more than one report of this happening. > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > We need a government to protect us from crooks who pass off faked recordings as news? They don’t seem to be doing a very good job of it… > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > [Station staff, apparently.](http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/z-on-tv-blog/bal-wbff-apologizes-misleading-edit-videotape-of-protest-chant-20141222-story.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549.md?page=10)