# Executed man found innocent. Just wonderful. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310 "2005-11-22T20:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/21 "2005-11-22T20:44:00Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > There is no statue of limitations on murder. The witness, however, was probably under duress and in my mind is probably less to blame than the prosecutor and the police. I’d tend to agree. Back room confessions are illegal now, but police and prosecutors can still bring an awful lot of persuasive force to bear. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/22 "2005-11-22T20:45:13Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > I’m pro-capital punishment but against the death penalty. I believe that instead of death, the penalty should be torture. You might want to bone up on the old constitution, there, pal. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/23 "2005-11-22T20:45:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How? > > The statute of limitations on the perjury and any crimes the police may have committed will have long since run. > > How can the government possibly ignore that and prosecute them? Good point. However, Rick, what would be your reaction to the “O.J solution”? A wrongful death suit against the perjured witness? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/24 "2005-11-22T20:49:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Seriously? Do you have a link? Not that I don’t believe you, it’s just that I’ve got to see something like that with my own eyes. [Here’s one.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4527269&postcount=174) > [@Shodan](#): > > > [@jarbabyj](#): > > > > Holy cow, Shodan. Can I get a cite there? Are you honestly saying no innocent man/woman has been put to death? > > I am saying exactly what I said. No one executed in the US after the reinstatement of the DP in the 70s have ever been found to be factually innocent after being executed. > > I have no idea how I would cite this. They were all convicted (obviously) and their sentences all were upheld on appeal (again, obviously), so their guilt was established beyond a reasonable doubt. Appeal and review of their verdict over a period of years or decades never brought up any credible evidence that the verdict was wrong. > > I believe this is the process they are trying with Coleman. As I mentioned, he was convicted, there were years of appeals, then they claimed DNA testing would clear him, it established further evidence of his guilt, and he was executed. > > Now they are claiming that more DNA evidence will be proof of his innocence. And as I also said, I believe they are hoping to confuse the difference between “the tests didn’t show he was guilty” with “the tests didn’t work after all these years”. > > Regards, > Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/25 "2005-11-22T20:49:51Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > I’m pro-capital punishment but against the death penalty. I believe that instead of death, the penalty should be torture. Damn, you’re fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/26 "2005-11-22T20:50:33Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > It’s Texas. You think that’s going to stop them? “Y’all gpnna’ make a few mistakes, but y’all ain’t seei’ the big picture! Texas justice! Yee-haw!” Fuck you, shithead. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/27 "2005-11-22T20:50:53Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Good point. However, Rick, what would be your reaction to the “O.J solution”? A wrongful death suit against the perjured witness? That’s certainly possible. But… the witness in question is likely judgement-proof. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/28 "2005-11-22T20:51:57Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > A little more [Here](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3474407.html). Not sure how long the link will stay active. Thanks, Duke of Rat. That was pretty darn sad. If Garza is to be believed, it seems Cantu could have informed the authorities, or at least his own counsel, about Garza’s accomplice. He chose not to–again, according to Garza–due to some ‘street oath.’ I am by no means exonerating the DA, and by extension, the State, but still, why not save yourself if you can? This whole mess is very strange and very sad, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/29 "2005-11-22T20:54:10Z")
Curiously quite from all of those who are death penalty supporters. Like many here, I’m anti-death penaly for just the reason presented in this story. The system is composed of people and people are notoriously unreliable. You don’t get a second chance if you get the death penalty case wrong. For that reason alone, it should be outlawed. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/30 "2005-11-22T20:56:14Z")
Paging [Shodan](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5525039&postcount=25) to this thread > [@Shodan](#): > > But more common than wrongfully executing an innocent person. Therefore, if you execute a thousand murderers and thereby prevent X numbers of [escapes ending in murder,](http://www.tsc.state.tn.us/opinions/tsc/PDF/983/hallwill.pdf) you have to show that X + 1 innocents have been executed to argue against use of the DP. > > About 1.2% of all murderers are [re-arrested within three years for another murder,](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/rpr94.htm) which could be prevented by the DP as well. > > I just finished a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=280712&highlight=penalty) covering many of my arguments in its favor. > > Regards, > Shodan [More](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5526889&postcount=55) > [@Shodan](#): > > Sure you are. You made that argument directly in the OP. > > You are claiming (with no proof) that innocents have been executed, and this is one of the reasons you think we should not execute anyone. Same reasoning as me, IOW. > > And **John Mace** - I don’t understand your objection. Could you clarify? > > Regards, > Shodan [And further down the same food chain](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5527783&postcount=58) > [@Shodan](#): > > The key distinction is innocence vs. guilt. I am certainly taking into account that I am executing 1000 people. But I give greater weight to the innocent lives spared than the guilty ones. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/31 "2005-11-22T20:58:56Z")
I’m against it on moral grounds, I don’t want to be a party to murder even if it is society doing it and not me personally. Even if I had no moral objections, until police, prosecutors, judges, witnesses, and juries all become perfect we have the chance of catastrophic failure. I’d rather keep 1,000 convicted alive for decades if it meant that 1 of them was later exonerated. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/32 "2005-11-22T21:02:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In the past, there have people on this board that staunchly insisted the death penalty has NEVER been applied against an innocent man, and that it never would. I believe the conventional wisdom is that the ones being put to death are guilty of something but not necessarily what they were convicted for. From **Duke of Rat** ’s link (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > Within weeks, Cantu, Garza and the other teen were all separately picked up for questioning. Cantu and Garza refused to talk. But the other teen told police details about the murder that he claimed to know because Cantu had confessed only to him, according to police reports from 1984 and 1985. > > He later claimed he spoke only after officers pushed him and threatened to charge him with capital murder, according to a sworn statement and an interview. > > Despite that damaging statement, none of the three boys was arrested. For nearly three months, the investigation stalled. > > Then **Cantu shot an off-duty police officer at a neighborhood bar on March 1, 1985**. > > Detectives quickly arrested Cantu and reopened the murder investigation. Though the surviving victim, Moreno, had previously refused twice to identify Cantu, police finally obtained an identification and statement from him. Cantu was charged with capital murder. Within days, Moreno identified Garza, too. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/33 "2005-11-22T21:02:47Z")
If I’m reading Shodan’s posts correctly, I don’t think its fair to say he asserted no innocent people have been wrongly executed. It seems to me, Shodan was saying, at the time, no _known_ innocent people had been put to death since the death penalty’s reinstatement. I think there’s a difference. It’s subtle, no doubt, but a difference nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/34 "2005-11-22T21:05:16Z")
I read that part, too, Lute Skywatcher. I don’t think he killed him/her, though. As far as I know, civilians aren’t executed for shooting and wounding a person, police officer or not. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/35 "2005-11-22T21:06:21Z")
> [@butter pie](#): > > Fuck you, shithead. I hope a strip joint, Flying J and oil refinery open next door to your Houston home. No zonin’! Yee-haw! ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/36 "2005-11-22T21:07:27Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Mine too. It was just a matter of time before this came out. That cowardly little fuck witness should be executed. So - was this a woosh, or the most unintentionally ironc post in the whole thread? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/37 "2005-11-22T21:07:34Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > It’s Texas. You think that’s going to stop them? “Y’all gpnna’ make a few mistakes, but y’all ain’t seei’ the big picture! Texas justice! Yee-haw!” Hey, bite me. I’m really sick and tired of the suck-ass attitude toward Texas that people display simply because they don’t like the death penalty. I think we need, as a nation, to overhaul the concept of capital punishment to make sure that it is given only in cases supported by hard evidence, such as photos, fingerprints, apprehension at the scene, and/or DNA. And I would further overhaul it and say that if a conviction is returned in such a case, the defendant gets his automatic appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeals (or whatever it is in your state), and if the conviction is upheld, he is executed within 24 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/38 "2005-11-22T21:09:50Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > I read that part, too, Lute Skywatcher. I don’t think he killed him/her, though. As far as I know, civilians aren’t executed for shooting and wounding a person, police officer or not. Maybe not but it this case I can see how the DA was pushing for a conviction on the robbery/murder. I’m not saying I agree with it but I do understand it. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/39 "2005-11-22T21:10:16Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > This is the one and only reason I’m against the death penalty. You can free a man imprisoned for life if he turns out to be innocent. Good luck bringing this guy back to life. **Revtim** , I’ve started a discussion based on your remark [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=346122) (no, it’s not the Pit - it’s GD). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/40 "2005-11-22T21:17:47Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > If I’m reading Shodan’s posts correctly, I don’t think its fair to say he asserted no innocent people have been wrongly executed. It seems to me, Shodan was saying, at the time, no _known_ innocent people had been put to death since the death penalty’s reinstatement. I think there’s a difference. It’s subtle, no doubt, but a difference nonetheless. That was my read, as well, although there’s plenty of other stuff in that quote to sent my Outragometer a-twirlin’. > [@Polycarp](#): > > Good point. However, Rick, what would be your reaction to the “O.J solution”? A wrongful death suit against the perjured witness? What are the odds this guy has any money to sue for? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310.md?page=3)