# Executed man found innocent. Just wonderful. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310 "2005-11-22T20:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/41 "2005-11-22T21:23:00Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > So - was this a woosh, or the most unintentionally ironc post in the whole thread? Intentionally ironic. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/42 "2005-11-22T21:24:42Z")
Count me in with those who donā€™t have a moral problem with the death penalty for the most heinous criminals, but canā€™t accept the unreliability of the system. Thatā€™s really the issue here, and itā€™s a far greater issue than just capital cases, right? How many more people are in prison with lesser sentences for crimes they didnā€™t commit? I suspect the system is far more error-prone when its participants can tell themselves that itā€™s only a prison term, not the needle. Iā€™d feel much, much better if there were any concerted, organized effort to clean up the system - does anyone know of any? ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/43 "2005-11-22T21:36:32Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > Curiously quite from all of those who are death penalty supporters. Assuming that second word was meant to be ā€œquiet,ā€ what would be the fucking point? This isnā€™t GD, and the tone in this thread is clearly not supportive of any kind of reasonable discussion on the matter ā€“ which is all right and good, this being the Pit and all. So why would ā€œall thoseā€ pro-death-penalty folks bother posting in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/44 "2005-11-22T21:37:54Z")
Hereā€™s another cite from a notable non-Doper claiming that Texas had never executed an innocent person: ā€œIā€™m confident we [Texas] have not put to death anyone who has been innocent.ā€ ā€“George W. Bush I blame the prosecutors the most. They are entrusted with a tremendous amount of power and discretion. Most defendants canā€™t hire Johnny Cochran. This is what happens when they care more about padding their conviction record than with finding out the truth. This is also (obviously) the single biggest problem with the death penalty. There is too much potential for error. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/45 "2005-11-22T21:39:35Z")
Larger and more comprehensive article than news item link in OP re execution of Ruben Cantu. [Did Texas execute an innocent man?](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3471520.html) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/46 "2005-11-22T21:41:01Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > It makes me wonder how often people who are just in prsion (not on death row) get exonerated. I couldnā€™t tell you. I know that the state of Illinois took 100 people off death row in recent years - and some were freed entirely. While there were circumstances in Illinois you hope are unusual, like a police chief who was accused of having his men routinely beat and torture suspects, it makes you wonder. An additional ā€œfuck youā€ to this witness. Way to stand up when it mattered. In another article I read about this case, he was quoted as saying ā€œThe state of Texas committed murder.ā€ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/47 "2005-11-22T21:41:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [Hereā€™s one.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4527269&postcount=174) Thanks for that. I sort of do remember that thread. And I do remember, waaaaaaay back when I first joined this board, there were a lot of posters who had some awfully funny ideas of justice. Some paraphrased gems from that era: ā€œI think the death penalty should be legal, but should only be carried out if the family of the deceased has the nuts to carry it out themselves.ā€ ā€œEveryone who opposes the deathe penalty should be shot.ā€ ā€œPolice should have the authority to carry out the death penalty while they are making arrests.ā€ It was truly a more enlightened time. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/48 "2005-11-22T21:42:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Hey, bite me. > > Iā€™m really sick and tired of the suck-ass attitude toward Texas that people display simply because they donā€™t like the death penalty. Oh, itā€™s not simply because of _that_. šŸ˜ƒ I think people like to pick on Texans because of their stereotypical attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/49 "2005-11-22T21:46:24Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Larger and more comprehensive article than news item link in OP re execution of Ruben Cantu. > > [Did Texas execute an innocent man?](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3471520.html) Also liked by **Duke of Rat** up in post #11. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/50 "2005-11-22T21:46:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I blame the prosecutors the most. They are entrusted with a tremendous amount of power and discretion. Most defendants canā€™t hire Johnny Cochran. This is what happens when they care more about padding their conviction record than with finding out the truth. Thatā€™s just the thing. A court case is often not a search for the truth, but a popularity contest for opposing lawyers. In the typical murder trial, what you get on one side is a prosecutor who is often ambitious about getting reelected based on his conviction record. On the other side you have a public defender who doesnā€™t get paid enough to care one way or the other. The system is built lopsided. ( **Bricker** , if Iā€™m in error, feel free to correct me.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/51 "2005-11-22T21:52:01Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > So why would ā€œall thoseā€ pro-death-penalty folks bother posting in this thread? For the same reason that anyone defends a position, ever. I would very much like to know if people who have used the ā€œWeā€™ve never executed anyone innocentā€ argument in favor of the dp would have something to say to this particular situation. That is a common statement, and I would like to hear pro-dp persons address it in this context. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/52 "2005-11-22T21:54:12Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Iā€™m really sick and tired of the suck-ass attitude toward Texas that people display simply because they donā€™t like the death penalty. You know, I have a lot of reasons for thinking that Texas sucks. This is just one of them, Cowboyā€¦ > [@](#): > > I think we need, as a nation, to overhaul the concept of capital punishment to make sure that it is given only in cases supported by hard evidence, such as photos, fingerprints, apprehension at the scene, and/or DNA. Congratulations! You just made it where almost zero cases are eligible for the death penalty. Well, except for the ones where the perp is framedā€¦ You are aware that no parameters are 100% safe, right? > [@](#): > > And I would further overhaul it and say that if a conviction is returned in such a case, the defendant gets his automatic appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeals (or whatever it is in your state), and if the conviction is upheld, he is executed within 24 hours. So weā€™re executing innocent people and the putz wants to _speed up_ the process. How typicalā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/53 "2005-11-22T21:56:18Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I would very much like to know if people who have used the ā€œWeā€™ve never executed anyone innocentā€ argument in favor of the dp would have something to say to this particular situation. That is a common statement, and I would like to hear pro-dp persons address it in this context. Not that I ever made such a pro-dp statement but as I said in post #32: ā€œI believe the conventional wisdom is that the ones being put to death are guilty of something but not necessarily what they were convicted for.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/54 "2005-11-22T21:57:50Z")
All the untested virtue in this thread is really funny. Got a video showing where you take your whole family and sit them down and tell them that if a terrible crazy killer came in and raped and tortured all of them, that you would publicly work to see that the killer was not given the DP. That you would be perfectly ok with life without parole which is not really life without possibility of parole. And ( some of you ) would make sure that the police and everyone did not try to trick the killer into admitting it, and only if there was DNA and eye witnesses and 100% proof would you even be comfortable with jail time because of the POSSIBILITY that you might have the wrong guy. Post links to videos here: ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/55 "2005-11-22T22:03:28Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Hey, bite me. > > Iā€™m really sick and tired of the suck-ass attitude toward Texas that people display simply because they donā€™t like the death penalty. Well, according to [statistics](http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=56558), Texas deserves the reputation of a state filled with blood thirsty thugs who execute the most people. Donā€™t blame the rest of the world for calling you on it. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/56 "2005-11-22T22:09:00Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > All the untested virtue in this thread is really funny. > > Got a video showing where you take your whole family and sit them down and tell them that if a terrible crazy killer came in and raped and tortured all of them, that you would publicly work to see that the killer was not given the DP. That you would be perfectly ok with life without parole which is not really life without possibility of parole. Well, a long time ago the younger sister of a friend of mine was murdered (stabbed to death on a train). And more recently, a good friend of mine was raped and left to die in the boot of a car ā€“ but fortunately she survived. I donā€™t believe the death penalty is appropriate for any crime. Itā€™s just putting the state at the same level as the killer, regardless of how evil they are, and regardless of how certain you are of the guilt. For the Christians, thereā€™s the commandment, ā€œThou shalt not kill.ā€ It doesnā€™t have an escape clause, saying ā€œexcept for people convicted of murder, etc.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/57 "2005-11-22T22:11:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Count me in with those who donā€™t have a moral problem with the death penalty for the most heinous criminals, but canā€™t accept the unreliability of the system. Thatā€™s really the issue here, and itā€™s a far greater issue than just capital cases, right? How many more people are in prison with lesser sentences for crimes they didnā€™t commit? I suspect the system is far more error-prone when its participants can tell themselves that itā€™s only a prison term, not the needle. Iā€™d feel much, much better if there were any concerted, organized effort to clean up the system - does anyone know of any? This is going to hurt to type, but Iā€™m with **ElvisL1ves**. There are some people whoā€™s continued life serves no purpose: the BTK killer, Charles Manson, Carrot Top _et al_. Still, the system makes mistakes, and the system is heavily biased against poor and non-white defendants. It is not 100% reliable, it is not applied equally, and it should not be used. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/58 "2005-11-22T22:15:20Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > All the untested virtue in this thread is really funny. > > Got a video showing where you take your whole family and sit them down and tell them that if a terrible crazy killer came in and raped and tortured all of them, that you would publicly work to see that the killer was not given the DP. That you would be perfectly ok with life without parole which is not really life without possibility of parole. > > And ( some of you ) would make sure that the police and everyone did not try to trick the killer into admitting it, and only if there was DNA and eye witnesses and 100% proof would you even be comfortable with jail time because of the POSSIBILITY that you might have the wrong guy. > > Post links to videos here: Thereā€™s no question in my mind that thereā€™d be a large part of me that would want the perp killed (if a family member was murdered). Iā€™d probably say at some point that Iā€™d like to do it myself. That DOES NOT mean they should make a law based on that feeling. You have to have the forsight to realise that killing someone wonā€™t bring your family member back and killing the wrong person does the same thing to someone else that has happened to you. To have the faculties to think this during such a tragic time in ones life would be incredibly difficult, I grant you. Thats why someone else, the legal system, should be thinking this for me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/59 "2005-11-22T22:21:46Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Got a video showing where you take your whole family and sit them down and tell them that if a terrible crazy killer came in and raped and tortured all of them, that you would publicly work to see that the killer was not given the DP. That you would be perfectly ok with life without parole which is not really life without possibility of parole. I shall attempt to be as self-righteous as you are. Letā€™s see if I can succeed: You come home and your wife or husdand or soulmate or whatever you wanna call the love of your life is dead. You see a person in the room with blood on their hands holding a knife. You immediately lunge at the person, killing them in a rage of revenge. Only afterwards do you find out that the person you killed happened upon the crime scene and was trying to help. The real killer got away. You killed an innocent person because of circumstantial evidence and the rage and pain and desire for revenge. How do you feel and what do you tell his family? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/60 "2005-11-22T22:23:43Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Got a video showing where you take your whole family and sit them down and tell them that if a terrible crazy killer came in and raped and tortured all of them, that you would publicly work to see that the killer was not given the DP. That you would be perfectly ok with life without parole which is not really life without possibility of parole. You know what? The guy here wasā€¦ this is the complicated part nowā€¦ NOT the murderer. So the family that wanted swift brutal justice gets to find out that the real murderer has been out on the street for 20 years, because our crap-ass justice system picked the wrong guy and pressured the witness to finger him. Bang up job the prosecutor did here, he put the screws to the witness and got his man. The wrong man, but who really cares, right? Like ElvisL1ves and D\_Odds, I have no problem with murderers being killed, itā€™s the system I donā€™t trust to actually get the right guy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310.md?page=4)