# Executed man found innocent. Just wonderful. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310 "2005-11-22T20:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/61 "2005-11-22T22:26:59Z")
Have you ever heard of a fallacious **appeal to emotion** , **Gus**? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/62 "2005-11-22T22:27:26Z")
I wouldn’t want the perp killed because it’s too damn easy on them. Why should they just get a shot and go to sleep? As far as I’m concerned that’s not much a price for someone like Ted Bundy. I’d rather see them suffer for a while. Life in prison is a much worse punishment than the DP. Of course, **Gus’** manipulative little bit of demagoguery is a red herring anyway. The issue is not whether some people _deserve_ it (you will find very little argument on that score) but that we have no way of ensuring that we kill the right person ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/63 "2005-11-22T22:29:08Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > For the same reason that anyone defends a position, ever. But there’s no position to defend here. Folks are rallying around a reason to be anti-death-penalty, this isn’t the place to start a debate or reasoned conversation. If someone started a Pit thread about people who paint their fingernails, and most of the posts went along the lines of “there is _never_ a reason to paint your fingernails, period,” would you expect a bunch of fingernail-painters to jump in? There wouldn’t be a point. Start a GD or IMHO thread about it, and that’s a different story. But I’d wager that most pro-death-penalty folks aren’t stupid\* enough to jump into this Pit thread and try to “defend” anything. > [@](#): > > I would very much like to know if people who have used the “We’ve never executed anyone innocent” argument in favor of the dp would have something to say to this particular situation. So start a GD thread. > [@](#): > > That is a common statement, and I would like to hear pro-dp persons address it in this context. “Common?” I’ve _never_ heard that argument, save for the **Shodan** quotes provided in this thread (which I think may have been misunderstood). Again, if you want discussion on this matter, start a GD or IMHO thread: instead, it sounds like you’re almost daring people to come into a clearly biased thread and pick a fight. There’s nothing constructive to gain from that. \*I’ve seen a few pro-DP folks in this thread, and I’m _not_ calling them stupid … I’m just saying that a Pit thread on such a hot topic is a poor place to expect any kind of reason, and that’s why there aren’t the hordes of pro-DP posters that **plnnr** was apparently expecting. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/64 "2005-11-22T22:34:50Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Now, I know a certain former governor of a certain Lone Star State who still makes that claim, but I have little recollection of anyone on this board doing so. I hadn’t heard this, any linkys around where I could read up more? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/65 "2005-11-22T22:35:51Z")
It’s kinda funny that the biggest supporters of the DP are, on the whole, those who have the least faith in the government’s ability to act correctly and effectively. But they believe in the ability of the government to make the correct call on a man’s life. You’d think their heads would explode at the contradiction, but their heads apparently have some powerful contradiction-dampening property. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/66 "2005-11-22T22:39:05Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It’s kinda funny that the biggest supporters of the DP are, on the whole, those who have the least faith in the government’s ability to act correctly and effectively. But they believe in the ability of the government to make the correct call on a man’s life. > > You’d think their heads would explode at the contradiction, but their heads apparently have some powerful contradiction-dampening property. I think that some of those (George Will, for example…I think I’ve read similar stuff from other conservatives) are slowly changing their mind on the DP for that very reason. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/67 "2005-11-22T22:43:02Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I wouldn’t want the perp killed because it’s too damn easy on them. Why should they just get a shot and go to sleep? As far as I’m concerned that’s not much a price for someone like Ted Bundy. I’d rather see them suffer for a while. Life in prison is a much worse punishment than the DP. This brings us back to what **Elvis** touched on. If someone was wrongfully convicted of murder and got life in prison, they still have a lifetime of torturous agony to live. Would the mental anguish of having to spend another 75 years behind bars for something you didn’t do be of any consolation? That sounds like cruel and unusual punishment, yet I bet it’s happening right now, and not necessarily in Texas. So life in prison is a punishment worse than death in your eyes, and that’s the alternative to being wrongly executed as in this case. Hard choice to make. I don’t know that I’ve ever agreed with a single post \*\* Elvis\*\* has ever made, but I agree with his post on this: > [@](#): > > Count me in with those who don’t have a moral problem with the death penalty for the most heinous criminals, but can’t accept the unreliability of the system. That’s really the issue here, and it’s a far greater issue than just capital cases, right? How many more people are in prison with lesser sentences for crimes they didn’t commit? I suspect the system is far more error-prone when its participants can tell themselves that it’s only a prison term, not the needle. I’d feel much, much better if there were any concerted, organized effort to clean up the system - does anyone know of any? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/68 "2005-11-22T22:44:02Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > All the untested virtue in this thread is really funny. > > Got a video showing where you take your whole family and sit them down and tell them that if a terrible crazy killer came in and raped and tortured all of them, that you would publicly work to see that the killer was not given the DP. That you would be perfectly ok with life without parole which is not really life without possibility of parole. > > And ( some of you ) would make sure that the police and everyone did not try to trick the killer into admitting it, and only if there was DNA and eye witnesses and 100% proof would you even be comfortable with jail time because of the POSSIBILITY that you might have the wrong guy. > > Post links to videos here: Well, I didn’t think to tape it at the time, but I do recall one night, when my mom returned from standing outside San Quentin holding a placard, she made me promise something. If she were ever murdered, she wanted me to do everything in my power to see that her killer did not receive the death penalty, because she didn’t want the death of another human to be on her hands, even in such a roundabout fashion. And you know, I’m pretty sure I could keep that promise. I’m not saying that if someone murdered my mom, I wouldn’t want to kill the guy. I don’t think there’d be anything in the world I’d want more. (Except to have my mom back, of course.) But that’d be revenge, not justice, and I don’t think that the American government should be in the revenge business. Besides which, if someone else kills the guy for me, it’s not really revenge. It’s something I’d have to do with my own two hands, or else, what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/69 "2005-11-22T22:47:41Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > That’s just the thing. A court case is often not a search for the truth, but a popularity contest for opposing lawyers. In the typical murder trial, what you get on one side is a prosecutor who is often ambitious about getting reelected based on his conviction record. On the other side you have a public defender who doesn’t get paid enough to care one way or the other. The system is built lopsided. > > ( **Bricker** , if I’m in error, feel free to correct me.) I do take issue with your take on public defenders. Despite being notoriously underpaid, and outnumbered, and outgunned as far as available resources, most public defenders DO care – else they’d be doing something else. It’s not a lack of care… it’s a lack of resources. > [@The Daily Show With Jon Stewart Presents America (The Book)](#): > > In addition to the federal court system, all 50 states have their own supreme and lower courts, employing a total of 53,545 bailiffs, 73,143 stenographers, 48,734 sketch artists, and 3 public defenders ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/70 "2005-11-22T22:58:20Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > And ( some of you ) would make sure that the police and everyone did not try to trick the killer into admitting it, and only if there was DNA and eye witnesses and 100% proof would you even be comfortable with jail time because of the POSSIBILITY that you might have the wrong guy. Why…yes. Fucking yes. I would try to make sure the police didn’t trick the “killer” into admitting (or lay a heavy arm on the witness as in this case.) Because that’s exactly how the wrong person gets convicted. And if you really don’t give a fuck about the innocent person who’s convicted, how 'bout the guitly one who, by this method, isn’t? You’re really opposed to looking at the POSSIBILITY that you have the wrong man? In other words, you’re just fine with the real killer of you wife and children going free? (See, I can do emotional hyperbole too.) And for the record, I don’t have kids but I told my mom that if she’s murdered I wouldn’t seek the death penalty. She said she wouldn’t either in my case. We’re fine with that. We don’t believe in the death penalty. Sorry, no video. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/71 "2005-11-22T23:00:04Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Post links to videos here: I was going to explain why your reasoning is fallacious and your righteous indignation counterfactual, but others have done that before me. So I’m just going to call you a boob. Anyway, dp-penalty proponents have been hiding behind the lack of a provably innocent person being executed for years; now they can’t do that. Hopefully this will force them to admit that they believe it’s worth murdering innocent people to “achieve” the completely-ineffective goal of deterring murderers, none of whom are detered by the death penalty anyway. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/72 "2005-11-22T23:04:00Z")
I’d be happy if we got rid of the death-qualified jury. That alone makes the unreliability of death penalty cases higher than cases in which the death penalty is not on the table. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/73 "2005-11-22T23:19:51Z")
Here’s the Houston Chronicle article that broke the story: [http://www.thehoustonchronicle.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3471520.html](http://www.thehoustonchronicle.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3471520.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/74 "2005-11-22T23:22:39Z")
I’m in favor of the death penalty in certain cases, but I would not have called for it in this case based on what I’ve read. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/75 "2005-11-22T23:27:31Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Here’s the Houston Chronicle article that broke the story: > > [http://www.thehoustonchronicle.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3471520.html](http://www.thehoustonchronicle.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3471520.html) For about 20 minutes. Did you know that the guys from Duran Duran were witnesses? ---
**Author:** ![marymargaret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@marymargaret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marymargaret)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/76 "2005-11-22T23:28:03Z")
It makes me ill just to think of this. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/77 "2005-11-22T23:37:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I do take issue with your take on public defenders. Despite being notoriously underpaid, and outnumbered, and outgunned as far as available resources, most public defenders DO care – else they’d be doing something else. It’s not a lack of care… it’s a lack of resources. I could not agree more. The lack of perceived “care” may be more indicative of high caseloads and the social pressure of the courtroom workgroup. Many public defenders, who remain in that field for extended periods, are those who really believe in what they are doing. ---
**Author:** ![buns3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c89c15/32.png) [@buns3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buns3000)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/78 "2005-11-22T23:38:06Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > Assuming that second word was meant to be “quiet,” what would be the fucking point? This isn’t GD, and the tone in this thread is clearly not supportive of any kind of reasonable discussion on the matter – which is all right and good, this being the Pit and all. So why would “all those” pro-death-penalty folks bother posting in this thread? Well, thats one theory as to why they’re not posting a defence of the death penalty here. Another is that its indefensible in light of cold, hard proof that an innocent person was executed and that even people who support the death penalty are able to realise that. Except, apparently, **Shodan**. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/79 "2005-11-22T23:38:49Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > For about 20 minutes. > > Did you know that the guys from Duran Duran were witnesses? Ah, I see **astro** beat me to it. However: > [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Also liked by Duke of Rat up in post #11. No, he didn’t; that’s a different article. So phhpth. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/80 "2005-11-22T23:51:03Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > No, he didn’t; that’s a different article. So phhpth. 😃 Quite so, looked the same at first glance. I take back what I said to **astro**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310.md?page=5)