# Executed man found innocent. Just wonderful. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310 "2005-11-22T20:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/141 "2005-11-23T17:55:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **GusNSpot** , I am very sorry for what your family went through. > > However, I believe your second illustration proves the point. This judge that was so incompetant he let your sister’s stalker and rapist go free-would you want that man in charge of who lives and who dies? > > Second, how would you feel if your daughter’s killer was caught, tried, and executed. Then, a few years down the road, you find out they nabbed the wrong guy, killed him, and now your daughter’s killer is still walking free, while an innocent man died for his crimes? That would be okay with you? > > Hell, by your logic, we ought to just allow the victims’ families to be on the jury. You are so obviously not reading what I write that this is all you get from me. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/142 "2005-11-23T17:58:32Z")
And if your son was wrongly convicted and executed? What then? Oh, you just want “justice?” Bullshit. You want revenge. And that’s normal. But it doesn’t make it right. I don’t want “100% perfection.” I just don’t want the government putting people to death, especially when, as you say, the system is flawed. Because humans are flawed. You don’t need the death penalty, just “something done.” Well, how about life in prison, no possibility for parole, where he’s locked away and can’t hurt anyone else? Dammit, our justice system should NOT be based on emotion. It was never meant to be. It’s supposed to be based on facts, evidence, and logic. > [@](#): > > Makes the phony sympathy all crocodile tears and shows, IMO, that you will prolly never really understand what the real world is … You want 100% perfection because you might be a victim of a corrupt system. It is corrupt because of the people in it, not in and of itself. I’m sure there’s a logical fallacy in here somewhere, I just can’t identify which one at the moment. I understand the “real world” plenty, and in the “real world” the judicial system will never BE perfect. And thus, it doesn’t justify taking someone’s life. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/143 "2005-11-23T18:02:22Z")
> [@Nocturne](#): > > I meant to say I would not support the DP for the person who did this thing to me. Sorry for that, it is rough. I have not been abused in that particular way so I can’t really know . Okay says the jury, we give him only 20 years on your say so. 20 years later he does it again and this time he does kill a mother. You will be willing to say ‘what’ to the child of that woman? I personally think castration and permanent marking is a better punishment for rape but then I have never been raped in the classical sense. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/144 "2005-11-23T18:05:27Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > This is Duhbya we’re talking about here. I don’t think he’s ever 100% sure about anything and if he is he’d never say so publicly. 'Tis the nature of politicians. I respectfully disagree. I believe he’s 100% sure of everything (even if he’s faced with completely overwhelming evidence contrary to the position he’s taken). I’m agree that he’d never admit to it. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/145 "2005-11-23T18:10:10Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > What percentage of confidence is acceptable when you’re sentencing a person to die for a crime? Is there such a number? I don’t believe so. > > I’m confident (hell, I’m 100% sure) that I don’t want to be the person executed for a crime I didn’t do. Until that doubt can be eliminated from the system, the practice should be abolished. By that logic, then self-defense in a home with small children should be outlawed also because even that is not 100%. I don’t want to be killed by a teenaged driver either and the odds say I very well might be. Does not mean that I’m trying to change the driving age or that the way society handles it now is wrong. Where you gonna draw the ‘has to 100%’ line? ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/146 "2005-11-23T18:14:12Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I personally think castration and permanent marking is a better punishment for rape but then I have never been raped in the classical sense. And that’s going to do what? How’s not having a functioning cock going to prevent him from using a beer bottle, or his fist or a broken piece of chair leg to violate you? How’s marking him going to prevent him from waiting until you’re alone and doing what he wants? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/147 "2005-11-23T18:16:56Z")
The Death Penalty is done for vengence, not self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/148 "2005-11-23T18:21:32Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > By that logic, then self-defense in a home with small children should be outlawed also because even that is not 100%. You only get self defense when you are at risk of injury or death. A prisoner is no longer a danger to society, it is not necessary to kill him to secure our safety. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/149 "2005-11-23T18:34:54Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > The cry of “Even one mistake is not worth it.” Do you really want to live where that is really enforced? If by “live where that is really enforced” you mean live in a society where the worst criminals are not executed but in jail for life? Why not? It really sounds like you seem to think those against the DP want the criminals to walk free or something. If you were to explain what advantages death has over life imprisonment, maybe I can see your point of view better. Also, I’m sorry I did not previously offer my sympathies to the horrible stuff you and yours went through. You truly have my condolences. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/150 "2005-11-23T18:48:39Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Where you gonna draw the ‘has to 100%’ line? If the state executes someone they are 100% dead. There is a 100% chance that they are not coming back to life. In may way of thinking, the state better be 100% sure that they’ve executed the correct person. Of course, there may be people out there who are willing to forgive the error. I trust that you’re one of them and would willingly go the electric chair in the name of “almost good enough” justice. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/151 "2005-11-23T19:00:09Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > What percentage of confidence is acceptable when you’re sentencing a person to die for a crime? Is there such a number? I don’t believe so. That’s a interesting question, but it’s irrelevant to the point I was addressing. People say that Dubya claimed that no innocent person had ever received the death penalty in Texas, but that’s not what he said. Rather, Dubya said he was _confident_ that no such atrocity had occurred. This is not the same as 100% certainty. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/152 "2005-11-23T19:41:03Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > That’s a interesting question, but it’s irrelevant to the point I was addressing. > > People say that Dubya claimed that no innocent person had ever received the death penalty in Texas, but that’s not what he said. Rather, Dubya said he was _confident_ that no such atrocity had occurred. This is not the same as 100% certainty. especially when we also look at the other things he’s “confident” of. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/153 "2005-11-23T19:41:54Z")
This about sums it up. > [@Debaser](#): > > It’s entirely reasonable to be on either side of this issue. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not in the face of the facts we do have, it isn’t. You’ve looked at the facts, and made your decision about what’s right. According to you anyone who disagrees isn’t being reasonable, it would seem. This certainly explains your attitude towards other posters. Here’s to hoping the rest of us can do better. I’m off for the weekend. Have a great thanksgiving everybody! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/154 "2005-11-23T19:46:44Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > ( \*:: Oh, and if I am ever stupid enough to go into a strangers house with a dead body on the floor and pick you the murder weapon and stand there with it my hand… well. I need shooting because that is just too stupid to live.:: \* ) You might be too stupid to live just for the statement you made before this. However, your inability to answer the question - how you would react if you killed someone you THOGUHT was guilty of a crime but wasn’t - is telling. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/155 "2005-11-23T19:47:07Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > The cry of “Even one mistake is not worth it.” Do you really want to live where that is really enforced? I already do. There is no death penalty in this state, which ranks 8th lowest in the country for murder rates. Compare that to the murder rates in many of the states with the DP, and the deterrant argument you seem to be implying falls like a house of cards. No death penalty, and legal gay marriage. According to some people’s metrics, we should be one of the worst states in the union. In actuality, we’re doing just fine, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/156 "2005-11-23T20:10:48Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Are you kidding? The whole fucking Pit is crawling with examples of the OP getting trounced. If you don’t like the thread, leave it. Jesus. Yes, you’re absolutely right: I tried to explain why I’m not surprised that pro-DP folks hadn’t flooded this thread, so _obviously_ that means I don’t like it and should just go away. :rolleyes: The Pit also contains plenty of threads where the OP _isn’t_ getting trounced, so I’m not quite sure what point you think you’re making. Perhaps the fingernail thing was a bad example, but this is an extremely heated topic (like a Pit thread about abortion would be, or gun rights, etc.), and there has been a clear bias from the very start. At the time I replied to **plnnr** ’s comment about pro-DP responses, those seemed like logical reasons for why there hadn’t been any/many. How you extrapolate that to mean that I “don’t like the thread” (especially when I haven’t stated my opinion on the DP one way or the other) is beyond me. I’m sorry that you find the ability to look at things from someone else’s point of view so exasperating. “Jesus,” indeed. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/157 "2005-11-23T20:13:27Z")
Honest question for **GusNSpot** : How many executions of innocent people - out of, say, 100 total executions - are acceptable to you? I understand that this issue is inextricably tied to emotion for you, and I can’t say that I wouldn’t feel the same way if I were in your situation. However, you seem to have asserted that a few “mistakes” are acceptable so long as the death penalty is primarily carried out against the guilty. I’d like to know what kind of error rate you’re comfortable with. 10%? 1%? .1%? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/158 "2005-11-23T20:24:40Z")
> [@black455](#): > > Honest question for **GusNSpot** : > > How many executions of innocent people - out of, say, 100 total executions - are acceptable to you? > > I understand that this issue is inextricably tied to emotion for you, and I can’t say that I wouldn’t feel the same way if I were in your situation. > > However, you seem to have asserted that a few “mistakes” are acceptable so long as the death penalty is primarily carried out against the guilty. I’d like to know what kind of error rate you’re comfortable with. 10%? 1%? .1%? > > Thanks. In addition to this, I’d like to know if **Gus** would be willing to _be_ one of the mistakes…or if he’d like his son or brother or wife to be one of those mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/159 "2005-11-23T20:26:59Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > The Pit also contains plenty of threads where the OP _isn’t_ getting trounced, so I’m not quite sure what point you think you’re making. Perhaps the fingernail thing was a bad example, but this is an extremely heated topic (like a Pit thread about abortion would be, or gun rights, etc.), and there has been a clear bias from the very start. At the time I replied to **plnnr** ’s comment about pro-DP responses, those seemed like logical reasons for why there hadn’t been any/many. If you think that you were being the voice of calm and reason, you really need to reread your posts. You were being snotty and argumentative, not offering reasons you thought something might be the case. “What would be the fucking point?” is not the way most helpful posts start. I replied, and you got even snottier. And, as you will notice, there is a debate here and pro-dp people don’t seem too scared to post. I didn’t need to “start a GD thread.” This thread is fine, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310/160 "2005-11-23T20:29:04Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The Death Penalty is done for vengence, not self-defense. I don’t disagree with you, but given your earlier post about wanting the convicted to suffer, is this a valid complaint? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-man-found-innocent-just-wonderful/332310.md?page=9)