# Executed prisoners used in beauty products?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 29, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066 "2005-09-29T18:35:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/1 "2005-09-29T18:35:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> A Chinese cosmetics company is using skin harvested from the corpses of executed convicts to develop beauty products for sale in Europe, an investigation by the Guardian has discovered.
>
> Agents for the firm have told would-be customers it is developing collagen for lip and wrinkle treatments from skin taken from prisoners after they have been shot. The agents say some of the company’s products have been exported to the UK, and that the use of skin from condemned convicts is “traditional” and nothing to “make such a big fuss about”. …
:eek:
[http://blog.hexun.com/diversity/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=947492](http://blog.hexun.com/diversity/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=947492)
I’ve looked through [Snopes.com](http://Snopes.com), but if it’s there I can’t find it.
True, or UL? (personally, I call BS)
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### Author:  [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/2 "2005-09-29T19:07:27Z")
[It’s](http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,7369,1568622,00.html) [true.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050913/hl_afp/britainchinarightsbeauty_050913085955)
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/3 "2005-09-29T20:37:28Z")
Soilent of Olay is PEOPLE!!!
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### Author:  [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/4 "2005-09-29T21:08:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> Soilent of Olay is PEOPLE!!!
I can’t find the quote, but Warren Ellis told of how this [human-hair soy sauce](http://www.boingboing.net/2004/05/26/chinese_company_make.html) was carcinogenic.
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### Author:  [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/5 "2005-09-29T21:49:12Z")
> [@bouv](#):
>
> [It’s](http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,7369,1568622,00.html) [true.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050913/hl_afp/britainchinarightsbeauty_050913085955)
To clarify, it’s true that the Guardian has reported this. But if you read the article, you see they decline for “legal reasons” to name the company selling it. I know libel laws are different in the UK, but this seems dodgy to me. Even more suspicious is the mention of collagen from aborted fetuses. This brings to mind the unfounded rumors that have been making the rounds since the early 1980s that collagen from aborted fetuses is a common ingredient in cosmetics. For the aborted fetuses UL, see Brunvand’s _The Mexican Pet_ (1986), pp 93-98. No such fetal collagen is available for sale, but collagen from cows, pigs, human skin, and human placentas is available.
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/6 "2005-09-29T22:42:54Z")
This came up here before, and I asked without getting a defintive answer: wouldn’t this be an easy way for pathogens to spread? Not that this would prove anything either way.
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### Author:  [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/7 "2005-09-30T00:09:16Z")
Ask yourself a few questions.
Wouldn’t human skin be much more expensive than animal skin, because of (a) the rarity, and (b) the fact that animal skin is a more-or-less free byproduct of the butchering process?
Why would a manufacturer buy the more expensive source of collagen, when cow hooves are dirt cheap?
This is like the “worm meat in hamburger” rumor. Worms are twice the price of beef.
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2005, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/8 "2005-09-30T05:32:13Z")
> [@bibliophage](#):
>
> To clarify, it’s true that the Guardian has reported this. But if you read the article, you see they decline for “legal reasons” to name the company selling it. I know libel laws are different in the UK, but this seems dodgy to me.
This isn’t dodgy at all in a British context - and it’s about more than libel. As there’s the possibility that British laws have been broken, they need to be careful about naming potential defendants (including companies), as this can affect legal proceedings later on. And I would say that the Guardian is not the kind of newspaper that tends to fall into the trap of regurgitating urban legends, not in a big investigative piece such as this.
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### Author:  [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2005, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/9 "2005-09-30T11:25:07Z")
> [@AskNott](#):
>
> Ask yourself a few questions.
>
> Wouldn’t human skin be much more expensive than animal skin, because of (a) the rarity, and (b) the fact that animal skin is a more-or-less free byproduct of the butchering process?
>
> Why would a manufacturer buy the more expensive source of collagen, when cow hooves are dirt cheap?
>
> This is like the “worm meat in hamburger” rumor. Worms are twice the price of beef.
You haven’t actually read the story, have you?
The collagin is being extracted from executed prisoners. As far as the Chinese government is concerned, the skin is available for free.
Remember, we’re talking about the country whose idea of crowd control is to run over protesters with tanks, so I’m not at all sure that this isn’t something they might do.
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### Author:  [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2005, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/10 "2005-09-30T11:53:53Z")
> [@Diceman](#):
>
> You haven’t actually read the story, have you?
>
> The collagin is being extracted from executed prisoners. As far as the Chinese government is concerned, the skin is available for free.
**AskNott** ’s point is perfectly reasonable. Even in a country as keen on execution as China, the bodies of prisoners are in relatively short supply when compared to the availability of a waste product from an entire nation’s slaughterhouses. Add to that the fact that you’d then have to set up a dedicated prisoner-skinning production line rather than just receiving the alternative as-is, and it’s entirely sensible to question whether using prisoners in this way might in fact be more expensive.
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/11 "2005-09-30T12:12:45Z")
Prisoner #11811?
You’re soaking in him.
,…
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### Author:  [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/12 "2005-09-30T16:35:56Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#):
>
> **AskNott** ’s point is perfectly reasonable. Even in a country as keen on execution as China, the bodies of prisoners are in relatively short supply when compared to the availability of a waste product from an entire nation’s slaughterhouses. Add to that the fact that you’d then have to set up a dedicated prisoner-skinning production line rather than just receiving the alternative as-is, and it’s entirely sensible to question whether using prisoners in this way might in fact be more expensive.
Good point, but still, Chinese labor is really cheap, so I don’t imagine that there would be too much extra “processing” cost. Even if the cow hooves (or whatever) aren’t much more expensive, I can still see how the economics might work out. Especially considering the obscenly inflated prices people pay for the end product.
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/13 "2005-09-30T16:41:55Z")
> [@Diceman](#):
>
> Remember, we’re talking about the country whose idea of crowd control is to run over protesters with tanks, so I’m not at all sure that this isn’t something they might do.
As opposed to shooting them as at Kent State or setting dogs on them as at Birmingham?
Such stories about “those other people over there” go back to as long as we have written records.
I do my best to ignore them but they keep being pushed at me.
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### Author:  [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/14 "2005-09-30T22:49:21Z")
Yes, and what happens to the rest of the corpse once the skin is off? In American stockyards, they use everything but the “Moo”!
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### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2005, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/15 "2005-10-01T07:55:04Z")
> [@Diceman](#):
>
> Good point, but still, Chinese labor is really cheap, so I don’t imagine that there would be too much extra “processing” cost. .
Even assuming that it wouldn’t be very costly to use the prisonner’s skin. Even assuming that there’s a relatively large number of executions in China. Would it really worth it to get some extremely small quantity of collagen for some cents less (I mean, hooves can’t cost much, so even if the prisonner’s sking was free, it still would amount to a ludicrously low difference) and in exchange risk to gross out essentially all of your cutomers in case this information would be disclosed?
Until further evidences are given, I don’t buy it.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/16 "2005-10-01T20:36:19Z")
> [@clairobscur](#):
>
> and in exchange risk to gross out essentially all of your cutomers in case this information would be disclosed?
Precisely. Corporations aren’t moral, but neither are they stupid. Someone in Legal and/or PR would redlight this scheme faster than Britney Spears dumping a new husband. Corporations are known for shrinking at even the hint of bad publicity, simply because it means millions to them if they don’t.
Except that it wouldn’t mean millions in this case. It would mean billions, the future of the company, and the future viability of _everyone_ on the Board. There simply ain’t no way.
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### Author:  [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/17 "2005-10-01T22:08:35Z")
But the article says that it’s “traditional” and they are actually _telling_ their customers. Maybe its a Chinese superstition and they think there is some sort of medicinal benefit to it, and that this is a selling point in certain markets.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/18 "2005-10-01T22:15:52Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#):
>
> But the article says that it’s “traditional” and they are actually _telling_ their customers. Maybe its a Chinese superstition and they think there is some sort of medicinal benefit to it, and that this is a selling point in certain markets.
At that point the article reeks of xenophobia, if not racism. Sad, but true: It’s a common factor in urban legends, commonly seen in wartime myths that attribute horrible things to whoever we’re fighting at the moment.
The world is a very big place. The human capacity for ignorance is even larger.
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### Author:  [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/19 "2005-10-01T23:05:57Z")
Without wanting to sound racist, I don’t think it all that unlikely. From what I’ve heard, from fairly reliable sources, a couple of hundred years ago in England touching the hand of a hanged man was considered a cure for certain ailments, and a hangmans rope would cure others. So, if we had the superstition, its not unlikely that they had a similar one.
Of course, we still have a lot of quack cures over here. I understand it’s even worse in China. I don’t think its altogether improbable that many people in China believe in folk medicine made from executed criminals.
The idea that there is a cosmetics firm with a production line, though, still smacks of UL.
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### Author:  [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)
#### Post date: [October 2, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-prisoners-used-in-beauty-products/324066/20 "2005-10-02T03:14:04Z")
> [@Derleth](#):
>
> It’s a common factor in urban legends…
More than a common factor is needed to establish that this is a UL.
Note that the Guardian is saying that the article they published is the result of an investigation they conducted. It may be that they are lying, or duped, but this report does not take the form of an urban legend.
> [@](#):
>
> The world is a very big place. The human capacity for ignorance is even larger.
If you have facts that would dispel ignorance, by all means present them. Mere speculation about ignorance does little to fight it.
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