# Execution by CO (carbon monoxide gas) - pros and cons **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267 "2014-07-28T18:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cookiecuttercc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@cookiecuttercc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cookiecuttercc)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/21 "2014-07-28T23:31:47Z")
"For example: > **[The Effects of Hypoxia](https://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/the-effects-of-hypoxia/82658949/)** > > Experiment to show the effects of hypoxia, when the brain is deprived of an adequate oxygen supply. The subject (Michael Portillo) sums up the experience “I had no idea I was near death”" This clip is from a Horizon documentary of capital punishment. From an objective perspective, nitrous aka laughing gas is a cheap, painless, humane form of capital punishment----as basically you’re too “high” to realize that you’re dying. One Louisiana corrections official interviewed by Portillo (a conservative UK politician) for the program felt that execution by laughing gas was too humane. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/22 "2014-07-29T00:14:26Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > High-altitude anoxia can lead to a panic stage, can it not, as the body realizes it’s going hypoxic and struggles? **Same for inert gas asphixiation?** My understanding is that the body never quite realizes what’s going on with CO poisoning, since the oxygenation process continues “normally.” The bolded part is not accurate. It is not a lack of oxygen binding to hemoglobin that causes a suffocating feeling, rather it is a build-up of carbon dioxide in the blood which any inert gas can displace in the lungs. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/23 "2014-07-29T01:06:22Z")
> [@liontamer](#): > > What if you use CO2 instead? The sensation of suffocation is \* caused \* by the buildup of CO2 in the blood. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/24 "2014-07-29T03:00:39Z")
In several previous death penalty threads, there was a case mentioned where someone wanted to be sedated and sleep through his execution. The judge ruled it unconstitutional, you have to be awake and know what’s happening to you as they kill you. If CO renders someone unconscious, then kills several minutes later, it might fall under the same ruling. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/25 "2014-07-29T03:06:15Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > In several previous death penalty threads, there was a case mentioned where someone wanted to be sedated and sleep through his execution. \*\*The judge ruled it unconstitutional, you have to be awake and know what’s happening to you as they kill you. > \*\* > If CO renders someone unconscious, then kills several minutes later, it might fall under the same ruling. What…why? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/26 "2014-07-29T03:08:24Z")
Knock someone out with sedatives, then use a gas mask full of either CO or an inert gas. Helium and nitrogen can also suffocate someone without triggering the sympathetic nervous system. If we did it with helium I think people wouldn’t take it seriously. Using heavy doses of a sedative combined with a nitrogen mask sounds the most humane. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/27 "2014-07-29T03:51:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What…why? Not traumatic enough I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/28 "2014-07-29T04:20:32Z")
Jonathan Miller subject himself to hypoxia [The Body In Question, Part 4 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUBQjnQVJ4U#t=45m24s) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/29 "2014-07-29T04:37:37Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > In several previous death penalty threads, there was a case mentioned where someone wanted to be sedated and sleep through his execution. The judge ruled it unconstitutional, you have to be awake and know what’s happening to you as they kill you. > > If CO renders someone unconscious, then kills several minutes later, it might fall under the same ruling. I think I’m the one who mentioned that case. Does anyone else remember it? IIRC it happened sometime in the mid-1980’s (?) but I could be entirely wrong about that. I’m trying to google up a cite for that, but all I’m getting is page after page of cites about the recent Arizona case with a few other about other lethal-injection cases or discussions in general. The case I think I recall was long before lethal injection became popular, when people were still arguing about electric chairs and gas chambers and firing squads. In those days, there were gruesome stories about executions by those methods too. ETA: So, by what bizarre tortured logic could the SCOTUS have come up with a ruling like that anyway? Any guesses? Here’s mine: What I think they were _really_ saying is: We, the SCOTUS majority, are right-wing conservative law’n’order Republicans and we believe that the State can execute anyone _any way they damned well please_ but we understand we need to come with some better-sounding justification than that, so here it is. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/30 "2014-07-29T04:54:13Z")
I keep reading articles and op-eds (sorry, no cites off-hand, but I’ve seen plenty over the years) arguing to the effect that _it’s difficult to kill people_ at least difficult to do in some well-controlled humane manner. WTF? Go to any hospital for any operation involving general anesthetic and they seem to have it figured out how to sedate people. It usually involves sticking a needle into a vein, usually in the forearm. They don’t need to stick a whole bunch of needles into you until you look like a voodoo doll or a porcupine. Seems it would be easy to kill someone, just about any old way, humanely, once the person is thus sedated, no? Just lop off his head. Or dump the body into a vat of boiling acid. Whatever. One aspect of “humane” capital punishment is the _optics_ of it. It has to _look_ calm and peaceful, even after the subject is fast asleep. You can’t sedate the subject and then douse with gasoline and set afire. You can’t sedate the subject and then toss the same into a wood chipper. There are witnesses to executions, usually, so there’s a lot of “execution theater” involved. And, no doubt, there are all those who think executions really _should_ be gruesome, but they know they can’t quite come right out and say that. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/31 "2014-07-29T04:59:19Z")
Another problem, periodically mentioned in conjunction with botched executions: It requires someone with a bit of skill at administering these injections to do it right. They really need a doctor, or at least a skilled nurse, to do it. But doctors generally refuse to be involved in executions. I’m guessing that real nurses would decline too. In the cases I see, they apparently get some jail-house technician to do it, who isn’t really well-trained in the art. One reads stories of the needle missing the vein, or poking all the way through the vein and out the other side, so the juice just collects in the nearby tissue with little of it finding its way to where it belongs. ETA: Or bad dosages. It’s just possible that lethal injections, as they are currently done (assuming a really effective choice of drug(s)), are just fine – if only one can be sure that the technician doing the job knows what he’s doing – apparently not at all a “given”. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/32 "2014-07-29T05:07:19Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I think I’m the one who mentioned that case. Does anyone else remember it? IIRC it happened sometime in the mid-1980’s (?) but I could be entirely wrong about that. You mentioned it in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=722304&highlight=sedative+unconstitutional), but I had already heard of the case. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/33 "2014-07-29T13:02:32Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Okay, CO is more dangerous in low quantities than I allowed. But it’s not strictly toxic like cyanogen gas, and there are inexpensive and reliable detectors for it. CO is toxic by any reasonable definition of “toxic.” > [@](#): > > High-altitude anoxia can lead to a panic stage, can it not, as the body realizes it’s going hypoxic and struggles? Same for inert gas asphixiation? Not at all. Military pilots go through [high-altitude chamber training,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSrGfElyfVE) in which they are placed in a room where the air is evacuated relatively rapidly to a pressure level that simulates 25,000 feet. After removing their masks, hypoxia begins to set in fairly soon. The trainees are required to execute various mentally demanding tasks, and eventually they get to the point where they are acting really stupid. The goal is to get them to actually experience hypoxia so that they understand what to watch out for, and it’s done because the symptoms are so insidious; you just get more and more stupid, and if you’ve never experienced it before, you won’t realize what’s happening to you. If it goes far enough, you get dizzy and pass out, at which point you’re well and truly fucked; there’s no panic phase. In the video, observe the second guy from the right; the masks are off at 1:00, and by 3:10 he’s useless, and by 3:20 he’s passed out without even realizing that he needed to put his mask back on. Likewise with inert gas asphyxiation. Take 2-3 big drags in a row from a helium balloon, and you’ll get dizzy and pass out without ever suffering/panicking at all. If you’re wearing a mask that forces you to keep breathing pure helium, you’ll die - again, no panic at all. > [@Velocity](#): > > Doesn’t carbon monoxide inhalation cause pounding headaches? For extended exposure to low concentrations (a fraction of a percent), yes. The [Wikipedia page for CO poisoning](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#Signs_and_symptoms) suggests that at concentrations a little above 1%, you’re unconscious after just 2-3 breaths, and dead after just a few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/34 "2014-07-29T13:24:42Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > What would be the downside of using CO (carbon monoxide) gas for executions? The argument I’ve heard is this:[ol] [li]The execution must be done by the government.[/li][li]Suicides don’t count as executions.[/li][li]The execution must be done totally by the government.[/li][li]Convict-assisted execution is a form of suicide and doesn’t count as execution.[/li][li]When the convict breathes the CO or CO2 or nitrogen or whatever, his participation disqualifies it as suicide or sort-of-suicide.[/li][li]This applies even when a gas mask is forcefully placed on the convict’s head; the convict is still doing the breathing.[/li][li]This applies even if the convict holds his breath as long as possible and then breathes involuntarily; it’s still him doing the breathing.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/35 "2014-07-29T13:30:25Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > The argument I’ve heard is this:[ol] > [li]The execution must be done by the government.[/li][li]Suicides don’t count as executions.[/li][li]The execution must be done totally by the government.[/li][li]Convict-assisted execution is a form of suicide and doesn’t count as execution.[/li][li]When the convict breathes the CO or CO2 or nitrogen or whatever, his participation disqualifies it as suicide or sort-of-suicide.[/li][li]This applies even when a gas mask is forcefully placed on the convict’s head; the convict is still doing the breathing.[/li][li]This applies even if the convict holds his breath as long as possible and then breathes involuntarily; it’s still him doing the breathing.[/li][/ol] This seems not to be true, given that [the gas chamber](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chamber#Using_hydrogen_cyanide) is still an option in some states: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Six states, Arizona, California, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri and Wyoming, authorize lethal gas if lethal injection cannot be administered, the condemned committed their crime before a certain date, or the condemned chooses to die in the gas chamber. The condemned person is even explicitly asked to assist in the process: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > The gas is visible to the condemned, and he/she is advised to take several deep breaths to speed unconsciousness in order to prevent unnecessary suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/36 "2014-07-29T13:35:19Z")
Keeve, is this some sort of new argument? The States have used Gas Chambers for decades to execute prisoners, without any sort of “he’s breathing!” argument to dissuade its use. Anyways, with lethal injection the convict is pumping his own blood around, carrying the poison to his organs, is that not a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/37 "2014-07-29T13:43:15Z")
So are there any differences between inert gas asphyxiation (let’s say nitrogen, since it’s the main component of air anyway) and CO poisoning? My remaining argument in favor of CO is that because it so stealthily replaces O2 in respiration, it bypasses even some asphyxiation response. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/38 "2014-07-29T13:58:20Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > So are there any differences between inert gas asphyxiation (let’s say nitrogen, since it’s the main component of air anyway) and CO poisoning? > > My remaining argument in favor of CO is that because it so stealthily replaces O2 in respiration, it bypasses even some asphyxiation response. I think an inert gas like nitrogen is the way to go, rather than CO. The most significant difference to my mind is that CO is actively poisionous, and nitrogen isn’t - what kills is the lack of oxygen, which the body can’t detect. That makes the whole process safer for everyone (except, of course, the guy being executed). Catch a wiff of CO and you are in danger; catch a wiff of nitrogen, you won’t even notice. I have read many accounts of people being subjected to pure nitrogen atmospheres, it seems they are dead before they even realize anything is wrong. So it is very humane, as far as executions go. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/39 "2014-07-29T14:06:11Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Keeve, is this some sort of new argument? The States have used Gas Chambers for decades to execute prisoners, without any sort of “he’s breathing!” argument to dissuade its use. Wow. I am busted, but totally, and respectfully withdraw my comment. I coulda sworn that this question came up a few months back, and that this was the answer by consensus. Never thought about gas chambers. Ignorance fought! and stupidly forgetful memories, too… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267/40 "2014-07-29T14:24:22Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I think an inert gas like nitrogen is the way to go, rather than CO. > > The most significant difference to my mind is that CO is actively poisionous, and nitrogen isn’t - what kills is the lack of oxygen, which the body can’t detect. That makes the whole process safer for everyone (except, of course, the guy being executed). Catch a wiff of CO and you are in danger; catch a wiff of nitrogen, you won’t even notice. I think you might be conflating CO and CO2. CO is odourless and although there are symptoms (tiredness, headaches) associated with breathing it, it doesn’t typically produce a ‘danger’ response (that’s why it’s a killer). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-co-carbon-monoxide-gas-pros-and-cons/694267.md?page=3)