Execution by CO (carbon monoxide gas) - pros and cons

[Velocity]

@Keeve

The argument I’ve heard is this:[ol]
[li]The execution must be done by the government.[/li][li]Suicides don’t count as executions.[/li][li]The execution must be done totally by the government.[/li][li]Convict-assisted execution is a form of suicide and doesn’t count as execution.[/li][li]When the convict breathes the CO or CO2 or nitrogen or whatever, his participation disqualifies it as suicide or sort-of-suicide.[/li][li]This applies even when a gas mask is forcefully placed on the convict’s head; the convict is still doing the breathing.[/li][li]This applies even if the convict holds his breath as long as possible and then breathes involuntarily; it’s still him doing the breathing.[/li][/ol]

This is absurd. Did 6 million Jews commit suicide in the gas chambers during the Holocaust? After all, they were doing the breathing and inhalation of toxic gases.

[Mangetout]

@Velocity

This is absurd. Did 6 million Jews commit suicide in the gas chambers during the Holocaust? After all, they were doing the breathing and inhalation of toxic gases.

Keeve has already retracted this argument.

[Malthus]

@Mangetout

I think you might be conflating CO and CO2. CO is odourless and although there are symptoms (tiredness, headaches) associated with breathing it, it doesn’t typically produce a ‘danger’ response (that’s why it’s a killer).

Nope - I’m commenting here on the poisionousness of CO, not the lack of ‘danger response’.

CO is an active poision, while N isn’t. That makes CO much more dangerous to handle - there is a risk to others from a leak.

[Machine_Elf]

@Amateur_Barbarian

So are there any differences between inert gas asphyxiation (let’s say nitrogen, since it’s the main component of air anyway) and CO poisoning?

Only that for non-toxic asphyxiant gases, death requires that they displace a large percentage of oxygen from the breathing gas. If you want to use non-toxic asphyxiant gas, you’ll need very high concentrations, e.g. 25% atmospheric air and 75% helium/argon/nitrogen. This results in the inhalation of a mix that is only 5% oxygen, which will kill. For CO, you would only need 99% atmospheric air and 1% CO in order to kill.

My remaining argument in favor of CO is that because it so stealthily replaces O2 in respiration, it bypasses even some asphyxiation response.

Other than unconsciousness/death, there’s no particular response to non-toxic asphyxiant gases. That’s the whole point: they’re non-toxic, so they can only induce hypoxia by displacing oxygen, just like those guys in the high-altitude chamber.

[Velocity]

@Mangetout

Keeve has already retracted this argument.

That’s right.

Sorry, Keeve, I apologize.

[August_West]

@liontamer

What if you use CO2 instead?

CO[sub]2[/sub] is quite painful. I used to work for a brewery and sticking your head in a tank full of CO[sub]2[/sub] is an instant assault on your airway. It creates carbonic acid on any damp surface, and your mouth, nose, and airways are essentially one big damp surface

[Machine_Elf]

@August_West

CO[sub]2[/sub] is quite painful. I used to work for a brewery and sticking your head in a tank full of CO[sub]2[/sub] is an instant assault on your airway. It creates carbonic acid on any damp surface, and your mouth, nose, and airways are essentially one big damp surface

Concur. I once put a chunk of ice in a zip-loc bag, and when the gas had just about filled the bag, I cracked it open, sealed my lips on the bag, and inhaled.

It was extremely painful.

[Gary_T]

@Machine_Elf

I once put a chunk of ice…

Dry ice, I’m sure.

[Mangetout]

@Malthus

Nope - I’m commenting here on the poisionousness of CO, not the lack of ‘danger response’.

CO is an active poision, while N isn’t. That makes CO much more dangerous to handle - there is a risk to others from a leak.

Ah. Got it. Sorry for the confusion.

[jtur88]

Convict-assisted execution is a form of suicide and doesn’t count as execution.

So, then, let’s say a convict on death row finds a way to commit suicide before the date of the exsecutions. It doesn’t count? So, what happens? Do they have to execute somebody else, in order to balance the books and have an accounting for a number of executions that corresponds to the numbered ordered by the courts? Is thre, like, a state lottery, to find a citizen to execute in the place of the one who disappointed them and foiled their sense of justice?

[Mangetout]

@jtur88

So, then, let’s say a convict on death row finds a way to commit suicide before the date of the exsecutions. It doesn’t count? So, what happens? Do they have to execute somebody else, in order to balance the books and have an accounting for a number of executions that corresponds to the numbered ordered by the courts? Is thre, like, a state lottery, to find a citizen to execute in the place of the one who disappointed them and foiled their sense of justice?

Assuming Keeve hadn’t already retracted that statement, I would assume the only way to make sense of it would be to count it as the convict having escaped justice. Do we randomly punish someone else now when a convicted criminal escapes? Where the heck did that come from?

[Amateur_Barbarian]

(re CO2) I find it fascinating that a regular component of the atmosphere, and something all living creatures produce, can be so immediately damaging and painful.

[Mangetout]

The dose makes the poison

[Velocity]

@jtur88

So, then, let’s say a convict on death row finds a way to commit suicide before the date of the exsecutions. It doesn’t count? So, what happens? Do they have to execute somebody else, in order to balance the books and have an accounting for a number of executions that corresponds to the numbered ordered by the courts? Is thre, like, a state lottery, to find a citizen to execute in the place of the one who disappointed them and foiled their sense of justice?

I think you know the obvious answer to this question.

[Colibri]

@jtur88

So, then, let’s say a convict on death row finds a way to commit suicide before the date of the exsecutions. It doesn’t count? So, what happens? Do they have to execute somebody else, in order to balance the books and have an accounting for a number of executions that corresponds to the numbered ordered by the courts? Is thre, like, a state lottery, to find a citizen to execute in the place of the one who disappointed them and foiled their sense of justice?

Moderating

Given that this is GQ, and that Keeve has already retracted the argument, this is getting away from the subject of the OP. Let’s drop this tangent.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[standingwave]

It’s cheap and foolproof. It’s not too pleasant so that should satisfy the vengeance camp. And there won’t be any more of these two-hours-to-die muck-ups.

[ol]
[li]Place inmate in plexi enclosed chamber.[/li][li]Open curtains to gallery.[/li][li]Fill chamber with water.[/li][li]Watch and wait.[/li][/ol]
According to wiki: Drowning survived as a method of execution in Europe until the 17th and 18th centuries. England had abolished the practice by 1623, Scotland by 1685, Switzerland in 1652, Austria in 1776, Iceland in 1777, and Russia by the beginning of the 1800s. France revived the practice during the French Revolution (1789–1799) and was carried out by Jean-Baptiste Carrier at Nantes.

[prbeck]

@Amateur_Barbarian

This is meant to be a factual discussion, not a debate over death penalty issues.

What would be the downside of using CO (carbon monoxide) gas for executions?

Assume a “gas chamber” setup, with, say, three valves, any two of which being opened will begin to replace the chamber atmosphere with CO. Assume five minutes for complete replacement of the atmophere, after which it would be 95%+ CO.

My understanding of CO poisoning is that the body cannot distinguish it from O2 and keeps on happily loading it onto red blood cells, causing the body systems to slowly suffocate. There is thus no “poison reaction” or much of any moment when the brain or body realizes it’s dying. With sufficient concentration, unconsciousness occurs fairly quickly, followed by brain death within ten minutes or so, followed by cardio failure a few minutes later. The subject literally goes to sleep, then brain-dies, then dies quietly.

CO is not particularly toxic should trace amounts escape from the chamber or remain when personnel enter to verify death.

CO is extremely cheap and can be purchased on the open market or chemically created by many simple reactions, meaning no supply issues.

Is any of this incorrect?

Having been though watching rats being put down for experiments it doesn’t look like all that pleasant a way to die. They run around the cage and then collapse gasping unpleasantly. The people that execute them are then ordered to decapitate them or snap their spines because too any of them have become alive once more.

CO is very cheap and easily obtained. The chambers can be opened as soon as the rats are deemed dead.