# Execution by drowning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928 "2009-10-24T01:42:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/101 "2009-10-27T03:31:09Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > This is what I’ve never understood. Why is it we can put dogs to sleep easily and effortlessy but cannot seem to do the same to a human? I’ve never heard of a dog having to go back home with his master because they couldn’t find a vein or a dog who howled in pain because the injection went wrong. Because dogs are euthanized by doctors of veterinary medicine. Condemned prisoners are executed by prison employees, not doctors or nurses. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/102 "2009-10-27T03:44:44Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Because dogs are euthanized by doctors of veterinary medicine. Condemned prisoners are executed by prison employees, not doctors or nurses. Yes, but surely the technique can be learned. It’s not an esoteric secret passed down from father to son. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/103 "2009-10-27T03:49:47Z")
I imagine they get kind of rusty between executions. Not exactly the same frequency as pet euthanasia. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/104 "2009-10-27T13:54:25Z")
Pets are also not, as a rule, IV drug abusers who’ve already given their veins more business than they can handle. ---
**Author:** ![BomTek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bomtek/32/21364_2.png) [@BomTek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BomTek)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/105 "2009-10-27T20:02:30Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Nonono, all prisons that do execution have to dig a deep pit with spikes at the bottom and hire a Leonidas look-alike to yell THIS IS \ and kick them in. The only problem I see with this is getting a Leonidas look-alike. I mean, sure, the facial features and bitchin’ beard would be easy enough to match, but do you have any idea how much work it’s gonna take to keep those abs looking that good? To respond to the OP, though, I’m of the opinion that the most important consideration for a state-sponsored execution should be whether it leaves the inmate’s organs in a suitable condition for transplant. The way I understand it, donor hearts/livers/what-have-you are usually in short supply, and while not all (or maybe not even a great percentage of) organs from a group as drug- and disease-prone as longtime inmates would be suitable for transplant, anything that increases the donor pool is a good thing as far as I’m concerned. Looking at [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_methods_of_capital_punishment)(because I’m a huge geek and not particularly inventive), most execution methods don’t meet this criteria. A firing squad riddles the organs with holes, lethal injection and the gas chamber make them toxic, stoning/crushing/boiling also crushes/boils the organs, and I highly suspect that electrocution renders most organs (particularly the heart) useless. Drowning would leave everything but the lungs, I think, but that still means that drowning doesn’t meet the criteria. On the other hand, the [breaking wheel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_wheel)sounds awesome and would leave internal organs intact. So would the guillotine and hanging. Disembowelment, though, is almost perfect for this: just remove organs and place them on ice. In the air: single shot to the back of the head, for one. It’d probably be OK except for the potential to damage the eyes/corneas. Is there anything else in the head that can be donated? Also not sure about all the calls for nitrogen/nitrous/CO2 &c. Would a saturation level of carbon monoxide high enough to cause death also damage individual organs irreparably? I don’t know; IANAD. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/106 "2009-10-28T03:12:43Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Pets are also not, as a rule, IV drug abusers who’ve already given their veins more business than they can handle. But not all condemned are junkies. No, I suspect they could be dispatched in the same manner of ease, and I occasionally wonder whether the powers that be haven’t thrown a spanner in the works out of sheer meanness. You know, make them suffer a bit. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/107 "2009-10-28T12:17:56Z")
I still don’t understand the problem with lethal injection. We put people under for surgeries thousands of times every day in this country. In those cases, we have to calculate a delicate balance between what will make sure that the person is unconscious, but will not kill them. With an execution, we don’t have to worry about the latter. Just do a Google search to see how much of a drug is needed to put a (insert weight here) pound (insert gender here) under for surgery, and then multiply that amount by 30 for the first dose. If they can’t find a vein, or if the inmate requests it, do it with gas through a mask. Hell, give him 5mg of Xanax 1/2hour before if he requests it. It seems to me that we can make death very, very painless and that these “concerns” are simply from people who are opposed to the death penalty anyways. Not that it isn’t a valid position, but we should stick to the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/108 "2009-10-28T12:30:15Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I still don’t understand the problem with lethal injection. We put people under for surgeries thousands of times every day in this country. No _we_ don’t. Doctors do. There are no doctors administering the death cocktail at executions. > [@](#): > > In those cases, we have to calculate a delicate balance between what will make sure that the person is unconscious, but will not kill them. > > With an execution, we don’t have to worry about the latter. Just do a Google search to see how much of a drug is needed to put a (insert weight here) pound (insert gender here) under for surgery, and then multiply that amount by 30 for the first dose. And that is invariably a fatal dose? Or will it merely produce brain injury and coma? > [@](#): > > If they can’t find a vein, or if the inmate requests it, do it with gas through a mask. What gas? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/109 "2009-10-28T12:33:34Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I still don’t understand the problem with lethal injection. We put people under for surgeries thousands of times every day in this country. In those cases, we have to calculate a delicate balance between what will make sure that the person is unconscious, but will not kill them. > > With an execution, we don’t have to worry about the latter. Just do a Google search to see how much of a drug is needed to put a (insert weight here) pound (insert gender here) under for surgery, and then multiply that amount by 30 for the first dose. > > If they can’t find a vein, or if the inmate requests it, do it with gas through a mask. Hell, give him 5mg of Xanax 1/2hour before if he requests it. > > It seems to me that we can make death very, very painless and that these “concerns” are simply from people who are opposed to the death penalty anyways. Not that it isn’t a valid position, but we should stick to the facts. The problem is generally that doctors and nurses often refuse to participate in executions. So often that prisons use relatively untrained people to carry out executions. And they screw it up – often. ---
**Author:** ![Ninas\_grandpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/54ee81/32.png) [@Ninas\_grandpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ninas_grandpa)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/110 "2009-10-28T13:06:12Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The problem is generally that doctors and nurses often refuse to participate in executions. So often that prisons use relatively untrained people to carry out executions. And they screw it up – often. Would not doctors and nurses be struck off from their professional bodies for participating in executions? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/111 "2009-10-28T13:15:48Z")
> [@Ninas\_grandpa](#): > > Would not doctors and nurses be struck off from their professional bodies for participating in executions? I’m sure that’s a possibility. I’m not sure it’s a certainty, but how many doctors want to risk their right to practice so they can kill instead? Er, outside of Texas, that is. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/112 "2009-10-29T02:55:17Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The problem is generally that doctors and nurses often refuse to participate in executions. So often that prisons use relatively untrained people to carry out executions. And they screw it up – often. So train them. Keep a small pool of trained executioners on hand who are neither doctors or nurses. How difficult can that be? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/113 "2009-10-29T02:59:20Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > So train them. Keep a small pool of trained executioners on hand who are neither doctors or nurses. How difficult can that be? Who trains them? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/114 "2009-10-29T03:11:30Z")
After a brief period of trial and error for a few unlucky shlubs, I’m sure they can hit on a winning formula. It’s not rocket science. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/115 "2009-10-29T10:44:33Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > After a brief period of trial and error for a few unlucky shlubs, I’m sure they can hit on a winning formula. It’s not rocket science. But that’s what they do now, and that [winning formula is still elusive](http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/information-about-romell-broom-botched-execution). ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/116 "2009-10-29T10:49:15Z")
Like the idea of only executing healthy prisoners, the concept of considering a person’s ‘human rights’ when you are about to execute them, just seems a little perverse. ---
**Author:** ![BomTek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bomtek/32/21364_2.png) [@BomTek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BomTek)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/117 "2009-10-29T17:39:43Z")
I realized that the breaking wheel, which I mentioned in my other post here, might not work for the criteria I set forth. I’m not sure if the breaking of the humerus and femur would make the bone marrow in them unsuitable for transplant. Also, the “mercy blows” were usually applied to the abdomen or the chest, and a fatal blow to either of those areas would almost certainly damage one of the organs in that area. So if you could still use the marrow from a broken arm or leg and the mercy blow could be applied to the throat, maybe, then I think the breaking wheel should go back on the list of options for capital punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/118 "2009-10-29T19:32:16Z")
Bone marrow for transplant doesn’t come from the arms or legs. [It usually comes from the pelvis](http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/medicine/bonemarrow/bmtinfo.html), in the iliac crest region. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/119 "2009-10-29T19:55:08Z")
You know, if your goal is to inflict as much suffering as possible, and still retain organs for transplant, why not inject them with a curare derivative to paralyze them, intubate them to maintain respiration, and harvest all their organs while they are still awake? Take the least necessary organs like corneas, liver and kidneys first, then the skin heart and lungs? That way, you can get your revenge porn, and feel like you have done some good at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928/120 "2009-10-29T20:40:52Z")
And keep the anesthetic minimal enough so there’s a slight constant trembling of the extremities and enough variation in the breathing so we know they’re conscious and aware of everything that’s happening. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-by-drowning/514928.md?page=7)