# Execution methods in US
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 9, 2016, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261 "2016-12-09T09:02:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/1 "2016-12-09T09:02:12Z")
First let me say I’d appreciate it if this didn’t turn into a debate on the rights and wrongs of the death sentence itself. This is about methods of execution.
[Ronald Bert Smith Jr has just been executed by lethal injection in Alabama.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-latest-high-court-lets-alabama-execution-go-forward/2016/12/08/1ecc17d8-bdb1-11e6-ae79-bec72d34f8c9_story.html) It is reported that Smith heaved and coughed for 13 minutes during the 30-minute-long execution.
I am astounded by the length of this execution and the obvious distress caused to the executed. Is this the norm for death by lethal injection? How on earth is this not cruel and unusual punishment? Why is this method favored by most states? Other methods, eg hanging and shooting, are surely far quicker and less painful for the condemned. When the UK had the death penalty the executioner Pierrepoint would appear in a man’s cell, swiftly secure him, walk him the few steps to the gallows in the next room, put on the mask, slip the noose around his neck and open the trapdoor. The man would be hanged and dead in a minute or two before he was well aware of what was happening. How is this not preferable to the long drawn out execution process in the US?
If people are to be executed, and as I said above I set aside for now whether they should or should not be, is it not incumbent on states to choose the quickest and most pain-free method? Lethal injection is certainly not that.
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### Author:  [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/2 "2016-12-09T09:43:42Z")
Hanging is old-fashioned, therefore it is barbaric and cruel. The modern wonder-technology of [del]electricity[/del] [del]chemical gas[/del] drugs! is newer and shinier, therefore better. Also, hanging and shooting look like killing. If a lethal injection goes well, it just looks like going to sleep, and we go to sleep every day and it doesn’t hurt one bit!
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/3 "2016-12-09T10:03:24Z")
There are plenty of drugs, e.g. morphine, which lead to a routine _pleasant_ death. There are, supposedly, legal or ethical (Hippocratic oath) reasons against. :smack: With many less painful alternatives to the often-malfunctioning “cocktail” in use, I assume that the added suffering is seen by many as a feature, not as a bug.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/4 "2016-12-09T10:14:34Z")
Lethal injection _could_ be swift and (theoretically) painless but in practice it often isn’t. This is due to a number of factors, like drugs companies not wanting to be involved in killing people and refusing to make available some of the better chemicals for this purpose, and the fact that most medical personnel feel it is unethical to be involved in killing people so the folks administering the injections are basically untrained for the job.
Hanging gone wrong is also pretty hideous, with long minutes of someone kicking and squirming as they slowly choke to death and the like, but the difference between that and what the OP describes is that the examples given in the OP were done by actual professionals, not amateurs.
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/5 "2016-12-09T10:40:31Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Lethal injection _could_ be swift and (theoretically) painless but in practice it often isn’t. This is due to a number of factors, like drugs companies not wanting to be involved in killing people and refusing to make available some of the better chemicals for this purpose, and the fact that most medical personnel feel it is unethical to be involved in killing people so the folks administering the injections are basically untrained for the job.
>
> Hanging gone wrong is also pretty hideous, with long minutes of someone kicking and squirming as they slowly choke to death and the like, but the difference between that and what the OP describes is that the examples given in the OP were done by actual professionals, not amateurs.
As this [website](http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hanging2.html#versus) [WARNING]filled with descriptions and the occassioanl graphic image of an execution,[/WARNING] points out that even if the process goes off without a hitch (emphasis supplied)
> [@](#):
>
> Execution by lethal injection takes much longer than any other method, anything up to\*\* 45 minutes for the complete process during which the prisoner is fully conscious except for the last 7-10 of those minutes\*\* (remember that in Britain a 20th century **hanging took, typically 15-20 seconds to carry out)**. This duration must subject the prisoner to far more mental torture because they know they are being put to death. Lethal injection is clearly much less dramatic than hanging and, therefore, probably easier for the staff and witnesses to cope with. It is suitable for both sexes and all ages of prisoners where a suitable vein can be located. However, there is often a problem where the prisoner has been an intravenous drug user or simply has small veins which tend to contract even further when they are frightened.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/6 "2016-12-09T14:23:06Z")
Your Washington Post cite wants my email address, which I decline to give - who is making the claim that he heaved and coughed for 13 minutes?
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/7 "2016-12-09T14:28:32Z")
From [www.AL.com](http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/12/alabama_death_row_inmate_is_se.html)
> [@](#):
>
> During 13 minutes of the execution, from about 10:34 to 10:47, Smith appeared to be struggling for breath and heaved and coughed and clenched his left fist after apparently being administered the first drug in the three-drug combination. At times his left eye also appeared to be slightly open.
>
> A Department of Corrections captain performed two consciousness checks before they proceeded with administering the next two drugs to stop his breathing and heart.
>
> The consciousness tests consist of the corrections officer calling out Smith’s name, brushing his eyebrows back, and pinching him under his left arm.
>
> Smith continued to heave, gasp and cough after the first test was performed at 10:37 p.m. and again at 10:47 p.m… After the second one, Smith’s right arm and hand moved.
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### Author:  [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/8 "2016-12-09T15:41:40Z")
It is not cruel and unusual because this method is the prescribed way of execution and execution can be the prescribed punishment for murder in the jurisdiction. The ban on cruel and unusual punishments just means that a judge or government official can not create their own brand of punishment but must follow the standard of punishment.
The reason that lethal injection is so messy is that doctor’s associations have forbidden doctors to involve themselves in executions. Thus executions are done by people who are not qualified to administer drugs and the drugs themselves are not optimal for a painless death. It is the doctors associations seeming belief that if enough executions go wrong the public or the government will ban executions and that the suffering of the condemned in the meantime is worth it.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/9 "2016-12-09T15:44:23Z")
I oppose the death penalty, but if we must have it, then bring back the guillotine. It seems about as painless as possible. If not that, then firing squad.
But the concern here seems to be about audience and appearance, not about the actual suffering of the condemned.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/10 "2016-12-09T15:56:51Z")
> [@Grey](#):
>
> From [www.AL.com](http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/12/alabama_death_row_inmate_is_se.html)
Thanks for the cite. Apparently his lawyers are the ones making the claim. The commissioner of prisons apparently disagrees -
> [@](#):
>
> Dunn contradicted witnesses who said Smith reacted to the consciousness tests. “From where I was seated I didn’t see any reaction to the consciousness assessment,” he said.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/11 "2016-12-09T16:03:22Z")
Ah well then, I have complete faith in the dispassionate assessment of the commissioner in charge of killing people.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/12 "2016-12-09T16:05:25Z")
I have equal faith in the assessment of the lawyers mentioned.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/13 "2016-12-09T16:37:18Z")
Hanging and shooting is cheap. The prison industrial complex cannot make money on a handful of cheap executions a year. Hence expensive wonder drugs, special electrocution chairs, chambers and the like. But of course, despite the modern, industrial appearance of these execution methods, they are far more error prone than bullets and rope. But at least someone is making good money!
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/14 "2016-12-09T16:55:26Z")
> [@DrCube](#):
>
> The prison industrial complex cannot make money on a handful of cheap executions a year. Hence expensive wonder drugs, special electrocution chairs, chambers and the like. But of course, despite the modern, industrial appearance of these execution methods, they are far more error prone than bullets and rope. But at least someone is making good money!
Who exactly do you mean when you say “the prison industrial complex”?
If you mean private prisons, I don’t think they do executions, although I am open to correction on the point. If you mean public prisons, how do public prisons profit more from lethal injection than hanging? If you mean pharmaceutical companies, what is the profit margin on execution drugs?
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/15 "2016-12-09T16:56:03Z")
> [@puddleglum](#):
>
> It is not cruel and unusual because this method is the prescribed way of execution and execution can be the prescribed punishment for murder in the jurisdiction. The ban on cruel and unusual punishments just means that a judge or government official can not create their own brand of punishment but must follow the standard of punishment. .t.
This is complete nonsense. “It’s not cruel and unusual because we write down a procedure and SAY it’s not cruel??”
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### Author:  [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/16 "2016-12-09T17:50:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Who exactly do you mean when you say “the prison industrial complex”?
>
> If you mean private prisons, I don’t think they do executions, although I am open to correction on the point. If you mean public prisons, how do public prisons profit more from lethal injection than hanging? If you mean pharmaceutical companies, what is the profit margin on execution drugs?
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
I mean the companies who sell the execution tools to the prisons. Hard to make money selling a dozen bullets or a length of rope a year. Real easy to make money selling complicated cocktails of chemicals, gases and electrocution tools, supposed experts to train the executioners, and the facilities in which to use them, even for only a few dozen executions a year.
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### Author:  [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/17 "2016-12-09T18:00:20Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> This is complete nonsense. “It’s not cruel and unusual because we write down a procedure and SAY it’s not cruel??”
I think **puddlegum** was referring specifically to the “unusual” part. You can’t have a million different novel ways to punish people, even if they aren’t cruel. We kind of have to pick a few standards (like prison time, community service, and fines) and stick to them.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/18 "2016-12-09T18:03:12Z")
> [@DrCube](#):
>
> Real easy to make money selling complicated cocktails of chemicals, gases and electrocution tools, supposed experts to train the executioners, and the facilities in which to use them, even for only a few dozen executions a year.
How much profit do the pharmaceutical companies make selling execution drugs to prisons?
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/19 "2016-12-09T18:25:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> How much profit do the pharmaceutical companies make selling execution drugs to prisons?
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
More than they’d make selling a dozen bullets and a length of rope.
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### Author:  [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/execution-methods-in-us/774261/20 "2016-12-09T18:28:43Z")
I’m in favor of electric bleachers. We’ve got some catching up to do!
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