Execution moratorium

Yup. Do you have any CLUE the misery that drugs spawn in this country? The deaths, murders, robberies, abandoned families and ruined lives?
Dealers should be shot on sight.

And as regards prison ‘comfort’, please note I said ‘relative’.


VB

I could never eat a mouse raw…their little feet are probably real cold going down. :rolleyes:

No one forces anyone else to take drugs. Blaming the dealer for the actions of his/her customer is like blaming the auto manufacturer for hit and run drivers. If drugs were legal, the cost would plummet and you’d see a lot fewer crimes committed to get drug money.

Relative to what standard? Short of freezing to death on the street I can’t think of too many standards of living less comfortable than prison.

“No one forces anyone else to take drugs. Blaming the dealer for the actions of his/her customer is like blaming the auto manufacturer for hit and run drivers. If drugs were legal, the cost would plummet and you’d see a lot fewer crimes committed to get drug money.”

Otto, you’re reasoning is fallacious.
Forced, maybe not; lured? you bet.

Dealers give free samples, then you’re hooked. Yes, it involves free will to accept the samples, but the bottom line is if there are no drugs, there will be no addicts.
Legalizing drugs is not the answer; cheaper they may become, less potent and debilitating they will not. Ask any cop who has had to deal with someone strung out on angel dust; the reasoning capacity just isn’t there. The addict will need the fix just as badly. Making it cheaper will only make his money go further; it still will be spent primarily to support the habit at the expense of health and family. No insurance company would touch him, and no employer would keep him long. Do you really want to take the chance that the next pilot, air traffic controller, cop, fireman, doctor, mechanic or any other of a plethora of professionals you meet are high while performing their duties?
He would become homeless,with no income or medical coverage, but the craving intact. You’re back to square one. Make crack cocaine legal? Ever seen a crack baby?
Opium was legal in China in the 1800s, and that didn’t prevent the misery.
You need to rethink your position, pal.
I repeat: Shoot’em on sight.


VB

I could never eat a mouse raw…their little feet are probably real cold going down. :rolleyes:

That is exactly one of the reasons that prompt me to oppose the death penalty in any form. Once you allow it for some crimes, people will want to expand it to cover the “hot” crime of the day.

Well, mangeorge, you tried. You really did. You even got a factual answer to your OP, which I would have bet against. Once we get into “why,” we go into Great Debates territory, as you see. So I’m going to kick it over there for further consideration.

Hey Gaudere! David!: Catch!

Livin’ on Tums, vitamin E and Rogaine

I agree with you; welcome to Human Imperfection. This has happened, and probably will always happen. However, I challenge you to look yourself in the mirror tonight and deny any of what I’ve said regarding the effects of drugs. If you have children, ask yourself if you would feel ok about them associating with addicts, much less dealers.

My opinion stands.


VB

I could never eat a mouse raw…their little feet are probably real cold going down. :rolleyes:

Well, well. It did wind up over here after all, didn’t it.
I think that all the arguements have already been made, on this and other threads.
So. Let’s try for the PIT.
Vestal Blue, you’re outta your freakin’ mind, man.
Think about what you’re saying for a minute.
Already we can’t manage to execute murderers “properly”. What’s it going to be like if we throw all those others into the mix, as you suggest?
When someone is executed it’s ME, as a member of this society, doing the executing. That weighs on me. The idea that some, or even one, of those people might be innocent goes beyond the considerable sympathy I have for the murderers victims and their loved ones.
Yes I have children, and grandchildren. Of course I don’t want them to be victims of the acts you describe. How can anyone imply otherwise? But I don’t want them to have to live in a society where the only answer to a heinous act is to commit another.
Life without parole keeps the doors open in case of error. Execution slams them shut.
Peace,
mangeorge

I only know two things;
I know what I need to know
And
I know what I want to know
Mangeorge, 2000

Since there will never be “no drugs,” why even attempt to argue this point?

Most currently illegal drugs do not have the deranging effect of PCP. Marijuana, heroin and the like are sedatives. Cocaine doesn’t generally cause psychosis.

Let’s suppose it costs $200 a day to maintain a habit for illegal drug X. Let’s further suppose that were the drug legalized (and thus subject to quality controls) it would cost $20 a day to maintain that habit. If the addict is a family man/woman, where is it likely that the now non-drug $180 a day will go?

So what?

Many addicts are quite capable of holding down jobs.

They could be high performing their duties whether drugs are legal or not. I’m not advocating the repeal of workplace regulations against on-the-job drug use. Why are you trying to argue it?

Except, as I said, the frequency of crimes he would have to commit to feed his habit would be greatly reduced.

Are they any less of a crack baby because of the illegal nature of crack?

The point still stands, drug dealers can’t commit their crime without the willing complicity of their customers. Selling drugs is a victimless crime. aybe you should disgorge some of the “War on Drugs” propoganda that’s lodged in your brain and re-think your position in the light of reality instead of hysteria before you advocate sending someone who sells his buddy a joint to the death house.

Tell that to your local bartender.


“The large print givith, and the small print taketh away.”
Tom Waites, “Step Right Up”

I always have to laugh when I see arguments like this one. Why would all of these responsible people suddenly become drug addicts simply because drugs are made legal?
I wouldn’t like it if these professionals were drunk either - should we outlaw booze? Ooops! Tried that once - and it was a miserable failure.

Actually, doctors have access to all sorts of controlled substances already - yet I’m willing to bet the majority of doctors aren’t seduced by the availability.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

My question: where are the goddam judges in these (allegedly) unfair capital cases? Aren’t they there to be sure that the defense lawyer doesn’t screw up big time? I can understand if an innocent man is framed by the police, but if an incompetent defense lawyer is to blame, then surely the judge can step in and declare a mistrial.

Good point, and a good arguement in opposition to the death penalty.
We can let the “allegedly” part slide. That innocent persons have been convicted has been established. The question remains; have any innocents been executed?
Peace,
mangeorge
Peace,
mangeorge

The judge can’t know whether the defense attorney checked up on the police work and crapped out or whether he just didn’t bother. The judge can’t know whether the attorney didn’t offer character witnesses because there weren’t any or because he didn’t care. The judge can’t know whether the attorney couldn’t afford an expert witness or just wasn’t smart enough to think of it.

A lawyer could give you a more complete answer on this, but another factor is that the judge is not there to do the defense attorney’s job. The judge cannot jump in when the defense fails to object to a prosecution question and cannot question a witness the defense fails to question.


Up, up and away!

The judge can’t know whether the defense attorney checked up on the police work and crapped out or whether he just didn’t bother. The judge can’t know whether the attorney didn’t offer character witnesses because there weren’t any or because he didn’t care. The judge can’t know whether the attorney couldn’t afford an expert witness or just wasn’t smart enough to think of it.

A lawyer could give you a more complete answer on this, but another factor is that the judge is not there to do the defense attorney’s job. The judge cannot jump in when the defense fails to object to a prosecution question and cannot question a witness the defense fails to question.


Up, up and away!

And if you don’t believe me, I’ll come back and say it again!


Up, up and away!

Many opponants to capitol punnishment use race as an arguement - the number of blacks vs. whites sentanced to death vs. life is extremely unbalanced. I wish someone would do a study comparing the economic backgrounds of those on death row compared to those who got off or received life in prison. I’m willing to bet that there are EXTREMELY few rich people on death row - they can afford competant attourneys.


“The large print givith, and the small print taketh away.”
Tom Waites, “Step Right Up”

I’m in a MPSIMS mood today, and I thought at first glance the title said.

Exercise Moratorium

I just want to say, I’m all for that!

Peace.


† Jon †
Phillipians 4:13

I’ve seen stats that back that assertion up (although I can’t find any online now- they’re all race-based). One of the few exceptions that I’ve seen is the murder case of attorney Thomas Capano in Delaware- he came from a wealthy family. But when you do the following:

…Capano obstructed the investigation for 16 months before his arrest, maintained his innocence while in jail awaiting trial and testified that another mistress, ex-Tatnall School administrator Deborah A. MacIntyre, accidentally shot Fahey to death.
During the penalty phase, Capano asked jurors for mercy, but only for the sake
of his four teen-age daughters. “I don’t beg,” he said. Capano told jurors he
disagreed with their verdict, and expressed remorse only for dumping Fahey’s body at sea.

You’re asking for it.

Unfortunately I can’t quote the date of it now, but I do remember reading a Washington Post article from the early '90s about the men sitting on Virginia’s death row. This is what I remember from the article:

about 50% were black
about 50% were white
about 100% were too poor to afford their own lawyer.

If anyone disputes this let me know and I will try to look up the article.