# Executive ban on offshore drilling lifted **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494 "2008-07-14T20:46:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/41 "2008-07-15T19:51:36Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] Since the benefits of drilling are A) a long way down the road, and B) not very significant in the long term energy picture for the US I don’t think opening it up to drilling is worthwhile. I’m less clear on the cost/benefit analysis of off-shore drilling. [/QUOTE] WRT ANWAR, the payback could be very fast. It is land based drilling and significant infra structure is in place near by. Seismic can be done quickly and easily, and land rigs can moved into the area for pad drilling pretty sharpish. Sizing for production facilities is also much less of a problem on a land location with a fairly well known production zone so lead time there is reduced. For the deep water offshore stuff, totally different kettle of fish. All deep water drilling rigs are tied up in long term contracts, esentially you would be looking at new build (ie years). The off shore seismic fleet, particulary hi res 3D seismc vessels which may be needed to to sub surface salt imaging, are also booked up. Then you need to actually drill some wells and do production testing to get a better idea of the production facilities that you will need in terms of capacity and fluid types. Then you have to build and install the production platform. In short ANWAR quick, Deep water, not so much. From an envrionmental point of view ANWAR is probably preferable, the risks can be more eaisly controlled, total containment is easier, and you don´t have hurricanes taking out platforms. You do have a risk of BP dropping the ball and letting pipelines get corroded though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/42 "2008-07-15T20:00:03Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] What I’m addressing is the proposition that domestic drilling will somehow help with high domestic prices. If we’re sending it overseas, then that’s no help to us. I see the value in having some fallback capacity in case the rest of the world runs dry, or if Chavez and the Arabs turn off the pipe. But what if we use up this capacity before that happens? I think it’s better to use up everyone elses’s oil first, developing alternative energy tech aggressively. Hopefully by the time everyone elses’s reserves run dry, we’ll be sitting on top of large reserves that we can afford to export. [/QUOTE] Then the thing to do would be to drill now, and then cap the wells for future use. By the time you’re in your emergency situation, you’ll not have time to bring the wells on-line. We’re talking years here, not months, to bring this capacity up. But who’s going to fork over the money to do that? Waiting for just the right time is a losing proposition. There is no right time. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/43 "2008-07-15T20:07:32Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] What would be the point? Profit. I don’t mean that as a carp or complaint; that’s simply how it is. They make a product that is sold on international markets, and they use those markets to maximize their profits. They don’t sit around dreaming up ways to help the American consumer or achieve energy independence. They don’t care one way or the other. I guess what it comes down to is that other countries are more starved for certain petroleum products than the US, and there’s nothing that says companies have to satisfy US demand before they start exporting. I don’t even pretend to understand the reasons behind it, but [While the U.S. oil industry want access to more federal lands to help reduce reliance on foreign suppliers, American-based companies are shipping record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries.](http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/reuters/2008/07/03/2008-07-03T184028Z_01_N02435397_RTRIDST_0_USA-OIL-EXPORTS-ANALYSIS.html) And bizarrely, apparently US petroleum exports to Canada, a net exporter, are higher this year than ever (same article above). [/QUOTE] You are not understanding what you are reading. There is a big difference between exporrting crude oil and exporting gasoline and diesel. My questions was about exporting crude. Why would we export crude? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/44 "2008-07-15T20:36:59Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] No, they will be filed to prevent development from taking place because of the risk of environmental disaster. [/QUOTE] But then how does _anything_ ever get done or built? There’s got to be a way around that legislative hurdle. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/45 "2008-07-15T22:19:22Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] But then how does _anything_ ever get done or built? There’s got to be a way around that legislative hurdle. [/QUOTE] How long did the average nuclear power plant take to go from design to on-line? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/46 "2008-07-16T11:26:22Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] What I’m addressing is the proposition that domestic drilling will somehow help with high domestic prices. If we’re sending it overseas, then that’s no help to us. I see the value in having some fallback capacity in case the rest of the world runs dry, or if Chavez and the Arabs turn off the pipe. But what if we use up this capacity before that happens? I think it’s better to use up everyone elses’s oil first, developing alternative energy tech aggressively. Hopefully by the time everyone elses’s reserves run dry, we’ll be sitting on top of large reserves that we can afford to export. [/QUOTE] Geez, that isn’t selfish in any way. What company would spend potentially billions developing a reservoir only to be limited to who it could sell it to and at what price? It is unlikely that they would when they could spend that money in other places without such restrictions. Frankly, I don’t know why the US is so concerned about this. They already have more oil than the middle east has ever dreamed of locked up in their coal reserves and oil shale. Develop those and you can tell the Saudis to go stuff themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/47 "2008-07-16T11:37:06Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] That’s just ridiculous. Even if you drilled out the entire ANWR, Gulf Coast, and California, we wouldn’t even be close to energy independent. It’s going to take nuclear energy to do that. [/QUOTE] Indeed. When I see a politician take on peasant superstition on that subject head-on, with no weaseling or equivocation, then I’ll believe that his agenda is American economic and geopolitical security. Not otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/48 "2008-07-16T12:14:29Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] What company would spend potentially billions developing a reservoir only to be limited to who it could sell it to and at what price? It is unlikely that they would when they could spend that money in other places without such restrictions. [/QUOTE] No need for exaggeration. No offshore reservoir is going to cost billions to develop. They cost a lot, but not that much. [QUOTE=Uzi] Frankly, I don’t know why the US is so concerned about this. They already have more oil than the middle east has ever dreamed of locked up in their coal reserves and oil shale. Develop those and you can tell the Saudis to go stuff themselves. [/QUOTE] How about the fact that oil shales aren’t the most economic of developments? Also, don’t disregard the natural gas reserves offshore. Further, coal isn’t exactly used as a transportation fuel, so I’m not sure why the coal reserves would be looked at as a substitute for oil. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/49 "2008-07-16T13:00:26Z")
[QUOTE=LonghornDave] No need for exaggeration. No offshore reservoir is going to cost billions to develop. They cost a lot, but not that much. [/QUOTE] Okay then, 100’s of millions. It ain’t cheap and is unlikely to happen if restrictions on who a company can sell the oil to are in place. > [@](#): > > How about the fact that oil shales aren’t the most economic of developments? What are the costs of shale oil? [Shell claims $30/barrel](http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4051709,00.html) What is the cost of oil now? > [@](#): > > Also, don’t disregard the natural gas reserves offshore. Further, coal isn’t exactly used as a transportation fuel, so I’m not sure why the coal reserves would be looked at as a substitute for oil. You make oil out of coal. The Germans did it in WW2, and the South Africans do it now. It probably costs less per barrel than Shale Oil. In both cases, the upfront costs probably exceed the costs of the oil sands in Alberta, but, like Alberta, you could produce at significant volumes for hundreds of years without running out. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/50 "2008-07-16T13:23:10Z")
[QUOTE=LonghornDave] No need for exaggeration. No offshore reservoir is going to cost billions to develop. They cost a lot, but not that much. [/QUOTE] Going to disagree here, the Thunder horse Deep water project topside facilities alone cost in excess of 1billion, add up the pre development drilling and all that good stuff, it is a 5 billion project . They plan on producing 250,000 bbls a day so don’t feel sorry for them. Mars topside facilities were close to a 1/2 a billion and the total 1st phase costs will come in at just over 1 billion. Independence gas hub is 800 million , and Chevrons deep water Jack prospect, the exploration wells alone are advertised as coming in at 80-120 million a pop, development wells won’t be much cheaper, The cost down in deep water Brazil and deepwater Nigeria/Angola are in a similar region. [QUOTE=LonghornDave] How about the fact that oil shales aren’t the most economic of developments? Also, don’t disregard the natural gas reserves offshore. Further, coal isn’t exactly used as a transportation fuel, so I’m not sure why the coal reserves would be looked at as a substitute for oil. [/QUOTE] I guess they are thinking of some sort of Coal To liquid process. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/51 "2008-07-17T15:11:28Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] What would be the point? Profit. I don’t mean that as a carp or complaint; that’s simply how it is. They make a product that is sold on international markets, and they use those markets to maximize their profits. [/QUOTE] You are missing **LonghornDave’s** point. It matters not one whit which oil is used where. Because the US is going to be using more oil than it produces, oil companies might as well keep the domestic stuff here and pocket the transportation costs. Just because the domestically produced oil is not shipped abroad DOESN’T mean it isn’t sold on the world market. That is the defining characteristic of commodities: Buyers bid on what the suppliers have to offer. When a deal is reached, the suppliers figure out the cheapest way to meet their delivery contracts. In most cases that will result in the oil being consumed as near the point of production as possible. Because suppliers can trade delivery contracts among themselves, all suppliers effectively have access to all sources and all markets. In short, there is no possibility of creating a situation where US produced oil ONLY benefits US consumers. If we were to somehow supply ALL of our own demand with domestic production, then the rest of the world would benefit from the lack of competition for other sources, and the net effect would be the same as an open market. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/52 "2008-07-17T16:12:42Z")
[QUOTE=LonghornDave] You are not understanding what you are reading. There is a big difference between exporrting crude oil and exporting gasoline and diesel. My questions was about exporting crude. Why would we export crude? [/QUOTE] You can find details of US crude oil exports [from the Department of Energy](http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_expc_a_EP00_EEX_mbbl_m.htm). ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/53 "2008-07-17T20:31:51Z")
[QUOTE=NaturalBlondChap] Going to disagree here, the Thunder horse Deep water project topside facilities alone cost in excess of 1billion, add up the pre development drilling and all that good stuff, it is a 5 billion project . They plan on producing 250,000 bbls a day so don’t feel sorry for them. Mars topside facilities were close to a 1/2 a billion and the total 1st phase costs will come in at just over 1 billion. Independence gas hub is 800 million , and Chevrons deep water Jack prospect, the exploration wells alone are advertised as coming in at 80-120 million a pop, development wells won’t be much cheaper, The cost down in deep water Brazil and deepwater Nigeria/Angola are in a similar region. [/QUOTE] You are correct. Certainly there are a couple huge projects right now. However, I think it would be fair to say the 99% of Gulf of Mexico development is far below $1 billion for a project. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/54 "2008-07-17T20:37:29Z")
[QUOTE=Duckster] You can find details of US crude oil exports [from the Department of Energy](http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_expc_a_EP00_EEX_mbbl_m.htm). [/QUOTE] That site is for crude oil and products. If you switch over from the destination sort to the product sort, you will see that almost all exports are of products and not crude. If I am reading it correctly, in April 2008, the U.S. had total exports of 52,612 thousand barrels with only 419 thousand barrels being crude oil: [link](http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_expc_dc_NUS-Z00_mbbl_m.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/55 "2008-07-17T20:56:53Z")
[QUOTE=LonghornDave] You are correct. Certainly there are a couple huge projects right now. However, I think it would be fair to say the 99% of Gulf of Mexico development is far below $1 billion for a project. [/QUOTE] Shelf and land work work, yes way below the billion dollar mark. However the federal waters covered by the ban in question are tending to be in the deeper waters, these are the price ranges we would be looking at for a larger proportion of the developments. cheers NBC ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/56 "2008-07-17T21:37:29Z")
I don’t know how valid the survey is, but according to it 52% of Californians support offshore production in California with 39% opposed and 6% undecided. For Santa Barbara specifically, 61% support with 31% opposed and 3% undecided. [powerpoint link]([http://www.chariotresearch.com/energysurvey/Santa%20Barbara%20County%20Oversample-%20Energy%20Production%20Survey.ppt#257,1,Slide](http://www.chariotresearch.com/energysurvey/Santa%20Barbara%20County%20Oversample-%20Energy%20Production%20Survey.ppt#257,1,Slide) 1) ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/57 "2008-07-18T00:01:30Z")
> [@](#): > > This is opinion, not fact, and so far you haven’t supported this opinion. Why does gas need to be cheaper? What? Why does gas need to be cheaper? WHAT? Was this seriously a question? People are in trouble, cousin. In a big way. Everything is tied to the price of gas. EVERYTHING. Everything you touch, own, use, eat, whatever, was on a train, truck or other type of vehicle that burned some kind of refined hydrocarbon fuel. When it costs more to get to the store, it costs you more. This fact hits poor people hardest, and because of that, all taxpayers get hit harder. > [@](#): > > Drilling for oil has costs as well as benefits. History has shown us that off-shore drilling and drilling in ANWAR has a reasonable possibility of creating environmental disasters and/or degradation. I, for one, would gladly accept an increase in the price of gas to avoid a major environmental disaster in ANWAR. Since the benefits of drilling are A) a long way down the road, and B) not very significant in the long term energy picture for the US I don’t think opening it up to drilling is worthwhile. I’m less clear on the cost/benefit analysis of off-shore drilling. Lookit. Bush announces the lifting of the ban, the price of a barrel of oil drops $10 in two days. That’s good for the consumer, that’s good for the oil companies and it’s good for the economy, which is also degrading. Rapidly. You’ve gotta fix that now. As far as the benefits being “a long way down the road” that theory’s pretty much shot in the ass. Just TALKING about drilling drops the price. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, simple changes to gas mileage fleet requirements, changes in the tax structure for SUVs/Gas guzzlers, increased credits for alternative energy (solar, wind), and some increased funding for mass transit in carefully selected areas would go a long way towards reducing our usage now, and changing the playing field for future changes. None of those things address equally the economic and environmental burdens. Plus, no one, not one damn person in any debate about this I’ve ever had has anything to say about India and China. They’re growing explosively and using oil like the shit was free. If we don’t keep an eye on that growth, we’ll be victims of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/58 "2008-07-18T00:36:56Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] Lookit. Bush announces the lifting of the ban, the price of a barrel of oil drops $10 in two days. That’s good for the consumer, that’s good for the oil companies and it’s good for the economy, which is also degrading. Rapidly. You’ve gotta fix that now. As far as the benefits being “a long way down the road” that theory’s pretty much shot in the ass. Just TALKING about drilling drops the price. [/QUOTE] [CNN/Money](http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/17/markets/oil/?postversion=2008071715) puts credit for the oil price drop to an unexpected surplus of natural gas and the prospect of US/Iranian diplomatic actions, not Bush’s call for OCS drilling: > [@](#): > > Oil prices fell steeply on Thursday, extending a decline to a three-day record $15.89 a barrel, as natural gas prices tumbled and investors anticipated declining demand. > > Light, sweet crude for August delivery fell $5.31 to settle at $129.29 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The last time oil settled below $130 was June 5, when it settled at $127.79. > […] > A sharp drop in natural gas prices scared many investors out of the energy market, said Tom Orr, head of research at Weeden & Co. > > The August natural gas contract fell 86 cents, or 7.5%, to $10.54 per thousand cubic feet after the government’s weekly inventory report showed an unexpected increase in supply. > > “When gas cracked, [oil] really just fell off a cliff,” said Orr. > […] > A State Department official said the Bush administration had not yet decided whether to seek the interest section, which would mark the first step to a permanent embassy, but indicated the administration’s desire to have “people-to-people contact with the Iranian people,” according to the Associated Press. > > The diplomatic talk helped ease fears that the oil-producing nation could become embroiled in a conflict with the U.S. and Israel. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/59 "2008-07-18T00:45:42Z")
[http://blog.skytruth.org/2007/12/hurricane-katrina-gulf-of-mexico-oil.html](http://blog.skytruth.org/2007/12/hurricane-katrina-gulf-of-mexico-oil.html) It may be that residents do not like off shore drilling in the Gulf due to oil spills. It just bothers some people. 2005 hurricanes resulted in a lot of oil spills. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494/60 "2008-07-18T01:22:43Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] Lookit. Bush announces the lifting of the ban, the price of a barrel of oil drops $10 in two days…Just TALKING about drilling drops the price. [/QUOTE] Yes, correlation == causation. Notice how scarce [pirates have become](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster#Pirates_and_global_warming) recently? Wait, what? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executive-ban-on-offshore-drilling-lifted/456494.md?page=4)