Machines get unfairly maligned in my opinion. Yes, they should not be the sole or even primary method of resistance training. But then, neither should free weights. Machines, cables and free weights should all be incorporated together if one wants to get maximum results from the time and energy put into exercise. Advanced lifters can utilize machines as a way to engage muscle fibers after the main free weight lifts that weren’t engaged. And no, I don’t mean the stabilizing muscles, I mean the main muscles that are intentionally being trained.
Although I am looking at this through the lens of maximum muscle development, not maximum strength gain. Both of those goals have different training needs. But machines after free weights hit the same muscles that the free weights hit but hit them after they are too exhausted to perform with free weights. And the name of the game for building muscle is engaging as many muscle fibers as possible.
Cables are unique because the muscles are engaged throughout the range of motion, unlike free weights. Also, you can position the cables to access this constant tension to areas that aren’t as accessible with free weights or machines. Underhand low chest fly is a good example of this.
Conversely, beginners should use machines as the main focus of muscle building but still use free weights. This is because free weights need to be used correctly to be beneficial and the risk of incorrect use with free weights is the highest of them all. So the heaviest lifts for a beginners workout routine should be performed on machines until they are familiar and knowledgeable enough with proper form that they can focus on free weights. And no, Smith machines are not the evil devils they are made out to be. They just need to be used appropriately.
If your form falls apart, you are going too heavy. Try ten doubles instead of 5x5, and concentrate on perfect form on every single rep. When you can do 10 perfect doubles, go to triples, then sets of four, then 5x5.
The hack squat machine to which you linked is easier on the back but harder on the knees, and as others have mentioned, strength on the machine does not translate to greater strength either in the free-weight squat or the real world. Machines are also less likely to produce the homeostatic disruption to your system that is necessary to trigger adaptation.
A chain is as strong as its weakest link. If your stabilizer muscles (core) are too weak, that will limit your strength, and need to be stressed in order to improve, not bypassed as happens with the hack squat machine. Workouts need to get harder, not easier. Using machines is easier.
mazinger_z, have you ever tried front squats? I have problems with my rhomboid muscle and my husband has problems with his shoulder, and both of us find that the front squat works our legs well without aggravating our injury. Warning: If you do try this, you’ll need to lighten up the load, because the average person can’t front squat as much as he can back squat.
I’ve wrapped a bath towel around the bar for comfort, but it still hurts. The real issue is my football injury makes it unbearably painful to hold one side of the bar because it feels like it’s going to pop out.
The trap bar is something we have at the gym. As part of the 5x5 workout, I do traditional deadlifts. At my weight, I’m starting to experience grip issues. I was told that proper squat technique was to sit just below parallel to properly engage all the muscle groups. With the trap bar, it doesn’t appear the movement is the same as the squat, i.e. sitting just below parallel.
I like the idea of focusing on form. As you state, with Ambivalid, I’m trying to get as much full body experience (i.e. engage as much muscle fiber) as possible. My goal is increase lean body mass as opposed to purely strength gains. I want to build lean body mass to increase my basal metabolic rate. With the hack machine, if I face the machine, I can sit below parallel without the knee stress. Yes, it’s easier, but I enjoy not having that much weight on my back and not stressing out my shoulder. With this injury, I’m not really sure I’m plateauing because of muscle constraint or because of shoulder injury constraint (though it feels like strength limitations, if I’m being honest) . However, from what I have been reading, it seems like the hack squat is inferior in terms of engaging all the stabilizer muscle groups.
I guess the real question then becomes: is the difference in squat exercises that much? For instance, hack squat + (some other exercise) = barbell squat in terms of muscle fiber engagement? Or are they so non-comparable that I should just focus on barbell squat and full range of motion?
The last time I tried front squat was during football summer camp in high school. It could have easily led to tragic and comedic results culminating in season ending injury if we did not have enough sense to stick to squats and bro lifts
There is no one proper descent for squatting. But the trap bar deadlift is much more comparable to standard deadlifts than it is to most types of squats.
That’s mostly hype:
However, weight training will still help you with your basic goal:
I would focus on doing the exercises one’s limitations and preferences work best with. IMHO, the importance being given to stabilizer muscles in overrated. Not unimportant, overrated. You will get those muscles worked even on a hack squat machine. And I don’t see any evidence for the blanket statement that hack squats are harder on the knees. For many that just can’t do squats without experiencing knee pain, they are easier on the knees. Especially due to the freedom to alter foot position. Variety, however, is not overrated. And don’t forget working the posterior chain- hammies and glutes.
If you are looking to gain muscle mass, you probably want more volume than 5x5.
5x5 is more general strength. Beginners are lucky - they will gain from almost any semi-reasonable program. You would appear to be well beyond beginner.
Hypertrophy needs volume as much as intensity, and correct form is an issue you want to improve. Correct form comes from practicing correct form over and over. Thus a hypertrophy cycle will meet both your needs of increasing hypertrophy, and the greater volume will give you a chance to practice correct form under lesser loads so that you are used to using correct form under heavier loads.
Hypertrophy comes from 15-20 sets per week of 8-12 reps using 60-65% of your 1RM. A 5RM of 295 in the squat, plugged into the 1RM calculator gives a 1RM of 339. 60% of 339 says 203, so try 6 sets of 8 with 205 three or four times a week, working your way up to 6 sets of 10 with 220, using perfect form, over five weeks or so. Then a deload week, then you can go back to 5x5 with 255 or thereabouts and work your way back up to 295x5x5, using the same perfect form.
For building mass, compound movements are better than machines. Free weight squats are more compound than hack squats for reasons discussed above.
What kind of rehab are you doing for your shoulder? Is it those rotator cuff movements with the cable station?
More compound? Where was that discussed above? Do you know the definition of a compound exercise? Do you have evidence for your claim that hack squats are harder on the knees than traditional barbell back squats?
Not so simple. Hypertrophy comes from a lot of variables in volume, rep ranges and intensities. Multiple studies show that equal or comparable hypertrophy occurs in rep ranges other than 8-12.
Context. Did you notice the quotes? Do you not realize they’re there because that’s what it’s traditionally called? Did you just skim to try to find something that seems to agree with you? If so, did you find anything like this while skimming?:
And no, the above quote does not tell the whole story. But quoting scare quotes to show “your own cite says”? Come on!
This may be slightly off topic but what is the purpose of an increase in basal metabolic rate? Is it just to make it easier to maintain a certain body fat percentage?
When we go on a caloric deficit to try to lose fat, our resting metabolic rate will inevitably decline. This means we have to restrict calories even further to lose fat and this higher level of calorie restriction is often the reason diets don’t succeed over the long haul. If we can keep our metabolic rate up, we can get away with less extreme calorie restriction which helps to ensure long-term fat loss while maintaining proper nutrition intake.
