# Exorcists **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748 "2004-04-07T14:41:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/21 "2004-04-08T00:53:34Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > Exorcism, IMHO is responsible for many of the true evils of this world A slight hijack perhaps, but while I agree that exorcism is at best silly and at worst can cause deluded people to suffer pain and neglect medical attention I hardly think it is responsible for more than a tiny percentage of the true evils of the world. Far fewer than, say, Bigotry, Greed, or corruption. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/22 "2004-04-08T00:56:15Z")
> [@Sangre Azul](#): > > My sig was, “I’m right. You’re wrong. So suck it you crazy b\*\*\*\*, or I’ll fire you on the spot.” > > Actually, I believe **Antiochus** was talking about my username, which is Spanish for “blue blood.” I don’t have a sig. :rolleyes: Yes, I erred. I meant your user name - or whatever it’s called at SDMB. Anyway, I can see your side of the issue a lot clearer, now. I think you’ll end up doing the right thing - even if it means you have to fire your copywriter. Is she a Latina, by the way?. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/23 "2004-04-08T02:22:54Z")
> [@trupa](#): > > Some of the criteria they use: > > -demonstration of supernatural capabilities e.g. levitation > -feats of strength of which the subject would normally be incapable > -communication of knowledge that the subject could not possibly know Haven’t saints been canonized for things along these lines? Speaking in tongues, religious “ecstasy”, accurate prophecy thanks to inside info from a vision of the Virgin Mary? Or are these people still “possessed”, but by the good guys? ---
**Author:** ![myrnajean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@myrnajean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myrnajean)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/24 "2004-04-08T02:55:12Z")
Not religious or an atheist, but geesh, why would satan or demons only infect the religious? Maybe, just maybe, its a side affect of BEING religious. When all goes to hell in your life…Its SATAN!!! Too fricking easy, if you ask me. If you BELIEVE, then you believe, and you become vulnerable to stuff, mental illiness, sociopathic disease, Possession by “demons” all sorts of stuff. The “Jesus TOLD me to kill them!!” sort of stuff. If you had no idea of who Jesus was, you would never have this problem. Man has no need of additional reason to kill one another, or hate one another or exercist one another…Its always the …hmmmmm …your not like me are you? Are you Satan?\* _response_ aaaaassuuuuuuuuugghghghh,’’ ddddddddd fkujjjjjjjjjkkk blutrrrrr fffaaaaaaaaaaaaaatang fatang fatanggggg, ole biscuit barrel Where can I get a good guiness? ee gads he’s a demon, soak hin in the guiness and dont’ let him out for three days Evert Irishmans dream of heaven ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/25 "2004-04-08T03:25:28Z")
Religious debate involving supposed demonic possession? I’m moving this to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/26 "2004-04-08T03:34:42Z")
grrrarrrghhh . . . your mother sucks cocks in Hell . . . ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/27 "2004-04-08T03:37:07Z")
This is a Great Debate? O\_o I petition for Pitdom! Meow! ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/28 "2004-04-08T03:46:59Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So far, we have never failed to find a natural explanation for anything … Oh YEAH? Explain Carrot Top’s continued presence in my television! It is EVIL! ---
**Author:** ![WaryEri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ea666f/32.png) [@WaryEri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WaryEri)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/29 "2004-04-08T03:51:21Z")
**trupa** ’s story makes me wonder: I’m a bit confused as to why the name “Jesus” would have any effect on a demon, were such a critter to exist. Does the demon respond to all translations of Yeshua? Is it responding to the intent behind the name? If so, could you say " Demon begone, in the name of Bob!" as long as you meant Yeshua? If there’s power in the name, why does a name that he never went by work? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/30 "2004-04-08T04:01:44Z")
[JesusMaud’ib] My name… …is a killing word. [/JM] ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/31 "2004-04-08T04:13:21Z")
> [@myrnajean](#): > > Not religious or an atheist, but geesh, why would satan or demons only infect the religious? > Maybe, just maybe, its a side affect of BEING religious. Don´t be mendacious, not even [bunnies](http://www.angryalien.com/0204/exorcistbunnies.html) are free from demonic possession. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ummm.yeahh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ummm.yeahh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ummm.yeahh)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/32 "2004-04-08T04:16:35Z")
For what it’s worth, I’ve seen and heard demonic possession before. I don’t care to give details but I firmly believe in it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/33 "2004-04-08T04:29:37Z")
Maybe exorcism could have a placebo effect? Is that possible? The case that _The Exorcist_ was based on involved a young boy who was thought to be possessed. I think it was also said that his young aunt, whom he had been very close to, had died recently, and there was reason to believe she had molested him. So his “possession” was more him acting out, and being disturbed. Maybe he truly thought he WAS possessed, and the exorcism “cured it.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/34 "2004-04-08T05:00:47Z")
> [@Sangre Azul](#): > > I would be disturbed by the severe lack of critical thinking and judgment. > > An anecdote: > > It recently came to my attention that my receptionist and copywriter both believe demons are responsible for the former’s bouts of sleep paralysis.\ > **Me:** “Have you considered it could be sleep paralysis? I’m a frequent sufferer and the symptoms are just what you describe - it has to do with being in a weird REM state. Think of it like experiencing the feelings of a nightmare, but not really seeing much of it. And the reason you can’t move is because your body normally “locks” itself down when you sleep to keep you from hurting yourself. It’s really frightening, I know. Try not sleeping on your back - that’s what sets it off in a lot of people, myself included. Just relax and it will pass. I could show you a few websites with more info. Or, I can give you the number for the local sleep center…” > > **Them:** “No, this is serious. We’re going to pray and try to cast it out.” > > Now, as a bit of additional background, the afflicted receptionist is a borderline believer in charismatic healing - when prayer is not a supplement to healing, but instead \*takes the place of \* medical intervention. > > \*That \* is what I have a problem with, as such a belief system can not only harm herself, but others whom she might feel the need to “pray” for instead of taking a more pro-active stance. And the copywriter shares her beliefs. > > Luckily, the receptionist’s beliefs don’t really impact her ability to direct my calls. But you can bet that everything the copywriter puts on my desk will now go under my careful scrutiny - I now feel like I have to check _her_ facts, since she has shown me her lack of critical thinking and research skills. To dismiss my diagosis of sleep paralysis is one thing. But to not even _consider_ it, especially from someone who is rather versed in the subject, and not research it is inexcuseable in someone whose job is to disseminate information. OK, as a practicing Catholic who believes in demons and in demonic possession, and as an occasional sufferer of sleep paralysis myself, I have to say I’m in agreement with you. I think a supernatural explanation should always be the explanation of last resort. All physical/natural/scientifically explainable causes should be ruled out before we say, “Well, maybe there’s something demonic going on.” When I’m in the throes of a sleep paralysis episode, I’m usually pretty well convinced that a demon is trying to drag me off my bed and… somewhere unpleasant. Once the episode has run its course (usually after I’ve either tried to scream for my mother or say the Prayer to St. Michael- the last episode ended when my cat Conan jumped up on my bed and pawed me with his little paws), I realize that, hey, it was just one of those sleep paralysis things and I go back to sleep. No big, I only have the things two or three times a year. I think someone who jumps to a supernatural/demonic explanation for a fairly common sleep disorder with known medical causes, then goes so far as to dismiss out of hand any physical or medical cause for the disorder probably ought to be in a line of work other than writing copy for medical texts, especially when that writing will involve doing work for a sleep center. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/35 "2004-04-08T05:03:57Z")
> [@ummm... yeahh...](#): > > For what it’s worth, I’ve seen and heard demonic possession before. I don’t care to give details but I firmly believe in it. Ummm…no…you haven’t seen or heard "demonic possession. There is no such thing. Whatever you saw had a natural explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Sue\_Duhnym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Sue\_Duhnym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sue_Duhnym)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/36 "2004-04-08T05:17:54Z")
> [@ummm... yeahh...](#): > > For what it’s worth, I’ve seen and heard demonic possession before. I don’t care to give details but I firmly believe in it. What was your user name? Oh. **ummm… yeahh…** You’re credible why? You just did the long-winded version of a “me too.” Don’t back up BS with BS – especially if you’re not even willing to describe your “seen and heard demonic possession”. Guess what! I had an alien experience. You’ll just have to imagine the details and trust me! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/37 "2004-04-08T06:27:42Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Not every wild hypothesis that can be imagined rises to any level of plausibility which merits consideration. … > > Like I said, natural explanations for any given phenomenon must be considered FIRST and they must _all be eliminated_ before you resort to the supernatural. It also seems to me that after eliminating the known natural explanations that you or others can think of at the time, it is a good idea to eliminate the supernatural. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/38 "2004-04-08T07:19:24Z")
Ever consider that some “exorcisms” might be a valid form of psychodrama to address “diabolical” delusions one may suffer from? Also, Diogenes, you occasionally show some respect for JC- what do you think he was doing when he was “casting out demons” (as he claimed to do)? Finally, while this is not naturalistic replicable scientific data, Dr. M. Scott Peck in his PEOPLE OF THE LIE does tell of cases in which psychological help was useless & exocism worked as a last resort with clients caught in malevolent delusions or behavioral patterns. ---
**Author:** ![BytopianDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9de0a6/32.png) [@BytopianDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BytopianDream)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/39 "2004-04-08T07:55:49Z")
Exorcism can be explained by natural phenomenon or by behavioral reinforcement. Natural phenomenon, such as strange diseases not known to an uneducated person, might seem strangely supernatural. In the past, we (as a species) have attributed many things to the supernatural, that can now be tested, proved and retested and reproven again as wholly natural. To not look into a rational reason for the cause of any human illness is irresponsible at best and possible manslaughter at worst. Behavioral reinforcement, that is having one action by a person being rewarded to encourage more of the same behavior, can explain many other demonic possessions. If a culture or person believes sincerely in demonic possession, then that person does believe that they are possessed. By garnering attention, relief of stress or other psychological benefits of acting out in that manner, the person is rewarded for that behavior. Thus, the person may act out that behavior again if the benefits are lost or lowered. In respect to religious aspects of demons, Satan and other forces of evil, I find such a belief to be a basic cop-out of human responsibility. The demons, devils and evil forces that hurt humanity can be squarely shown as ourselves. We have our own demons and devils inside of us. To deny that we possess an animalistic, base side of our being is to claim no responsibility for our own actions. The worst people in the world are not driven by demons, but by the worst of human motivations and personality characteristics. If we want to truly defeat the Satan inside of us, we must defeat our own evil motivations. To claim that our actions are forced upon us by a non-existant being is to let that evil side of ourselves win. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748/40 "2004-04-08T12:17:36Z")
Something I’m personally wondering is, even supposing that there were evil demons running around possessing people, how would demonic possession distinguish itself from some severe psychiatric illness? (The answer of “levitation” was given above, and I agree that mentally ill people don’t, in general, levitate all that often, but I’d like to see some well documented cases of levitation before I were to accept it as a part of the everyday world.) As far as I can tell, psychology and psychiatry cover the same territory that was once claimed by exorcisms and demonic possession. What is mental illness except a secular, scientific classification of what was previously seen as the work of evil spirits? In that case, it would be disingenuous to suggest that possession should only be diagnosed after mental illness is no longer a possibility, because as long as the patient displays signs of possession then they must also be showing signs of mental illness as well. As a sidenote, the person in question is not a Catholic priest but rather an ordinary person. > [@Larry Borgia](#): > > A slight hijack perhaps, but while I agree that exorcism is at best silly and at worst can cause deluded people to suffer pain and neglect medical attention I hardly think it is responsible for more than a tiny percentage of the true evils of the world. Far fewer than, say, Bigotry, Greed, or corruption. You’re right, but I see exorcism as part of the general problem of credulity and lack of critical thinking skills present in society, which in turn causes problems in all sorts of areas. But yes, that was hyperbole on my part. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/exorcists/238748.md?page=3)