# Expalin "Sambo Fighting" To Me?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109
**Category:** The Game Room
**Created:** [January 6, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109 "2009-01-06T17:34:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/1 "2009-01-06T17:34:17Z")
Someone sent me a video of Fedor E. in a “sambo fighting” match.
Googling produces lots of match videos but no definition. It’s obviously some variant of MMA, but outside a ring proper. Any link to a definition/rules/who follows it?
Also . . . um . . . are the people who follow it really okay with, like, the name?
ETA: Aw, Hell, if a mod could correct my moronic title misspelling, I’d be grateful.
---
### Author:  [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/2 "2009-01-06T17:39:56Z")
> [@Huerta88](#):
>
> Also . . . um . . . are the people who follow it really okay with, like, the name?
Seriously? Dude, get over yourself. It’s Russian. I have a hard time believing you’ve tried to find anything out about it whatsoever before jumping to conclusions, and therefore have a hard time taking your post seriously at all. How 'bout read the Wikipedia article and then come back if you want to talk.
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### Author:  [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/3 "2009-01-06T17:43:20Z")
> [@Cisco](#):
>
> Seriously? Dude, get over yourself. It’s Russian. I have a hard time believing you’ve tried to find anything out about it whatsoever before jumping to conclusions, and therefore have a hard time taking your post seriously at all. How 'bout read the Wikipedia article and then come back if you want to talk.
I searched, admittedly not as much as I should have.
Okay, sambo turns out to be an acronym of a Russian phrase. So no need for offense. If you’ve read my other posts, you’d know I’m not reputed for having the most PC set of beliefs, so I took no offense but thought others might. As it turns out, ignorance fought.
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/4 "2009-01-06T18:05:38Z")
Heh. 🙂 Yes, it’s a form of Russian grappling. It’s pronounced a little differently, too.
[Sambo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo_(martial_art))
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### Author:  [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/5 "2009-01-06T18:08:58Z")
> [@Cisco](#):
>
> Seriously? Dude, get over yourself. It’s Russian. I have a hard time believing you’ve tried to find anything out about it whatsoever before jumping to conclusions, and therefore have a hard time taking your post seriously at all. How 'bout read the Wikipedia article and then come back if you want to talk.
I never heard of it before and wondered what this might be. I’m not too hip when it comes to martial arts. (not really hip at all anymore)
I like the word expalin. I’ll be using this.
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### Author:  [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/6 "2009-01-06T19:28:32Z")
Wow, a modern martial that actually looks effective. It’s a miracle!
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### Author:  [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/7 "2009-01-06T19:31:29Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#):
>
> Wow, a modern martial that actually looks effective. It’s a miracle!
Actually, wouldn’t you agree that any system that involves grappling and getting a guy on the ground to do some further damage has some claim to efficacy? And don’t a lot of things like judo actually do this already?
I assume you’re meaning to deprecate things that rely on showy maneuvers like high kicks. I can follow you there.
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### Author:  [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/8 "2009-01-06T19:50:43Z")
> [@Huerta88](#):
>
> Actually, wouldn’t you agree that any system that involves grappling and getting a guy on the ground to do some further damage has some claim to efficacy? And don’t a lot of things like judo actually do this already?
>
> I assume you’re meaning to deprecate things that rely on showy maneuvers like high kicks. I can follow you there.
I think that for a system of unarmed combat to be martially sound you need a mix of disarms, take downs, some ground work and some basic, effective strikes. And those things must be studied at least some of the time, in a martial context, and not just purely in the context of sport or competition.
Judo lacks some of those traits. And the moment I see someone doing jump kicks and twirling like dancers I will roll my eyes.
So yes, I think we are in agreement.
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### Author:  [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/9 "2009-01-06T20:12:39Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#):
>
> Wow, a modern martial that actually looks effective. It’s a miracle!
Sambo, Brazillian jiu-jitsu, judo, boxing, Greco-Roman and freestyle wrestling, krav maga, and muay thai all have practical value. I guess even tae-kwon-do and crap like that has some limited practical value if you count conditioning and self-confidence, but the “stances” and maneuvers of those styles will get your ass kicked in a heartbeat in real life. I’ve seen it happen.
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### Author:  [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/10 "2009-01-06T20:31:31Z")
I agree that all of those have some practical value. But “some practical value” does not a “martial” art make. It should MOSTLY be of practical value if not entirely. Some of the ones you mentioned are definitely practical and effective martial arts though, much more so than others you mention.
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### Author:  [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/11 "2009-01-07T00:43:02Z")
> [@Cisco](#):
>
> Sambo, Brazillian jiu-jitsu, judo, boxing, Greco-Roman and freestyle wrestling, krav maga, and muay thai all have practical value.
Watching the successful fighters in the UFC, Pride, and Affliction, you can see that very successful people have started in all of these, but less so for judo and boxing. Apparently, being a decent striker but very good ground-gamer outweighs the opposite, because taking someone down often does more to change the fight for the rest of the round than throwing jabs does.
Sambo - Fedor E.
BJJ - The Gracies (of course), Frank Mir, and so many others
GR wrestling: Randy Couture
F Wrestling: Brock Lesnar, Matt Lindland
Krav Magra: I don’t know of one
Muy Tai: Nogiera, Anderson Silva
Of course, many of these guys have gone on to cross train in the techniques of others.
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### Author:  [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/12 "2009-01-07T01:03:20Z")
> [@Cardinal](#):
>
> Watching the successful fighters in the UFC, Pride, and Affliction, you can see that very successful people have started in all of these, but less so for judo and boxing. Apparently, being a decent striker but very good ground-gamer outweighs the opposite, because taking someone down often does more to change the fight for the rest of the round than throwing jabs does.
>
> Sambo - Fedor E.
> BJJ - The Gracies (of course), Frank Mir, and so many others
> GR wrestling: Randy Couture
> F Wrestling: Brock Lesnar, Matt Lindland
> Krav Magra: I don’t know of one
> Muy Tai: Nogiera, Anderson Silva
>
> Of course, many of these guys have gone on to cross train in the techniques of others.
It also depends if you’re trying to defend yourself on the streets or win a mixed martial arts competition.
I haven’t studied krav maga much but I believe it relies heavily on things like neck strikes, biting, testicle strikes, and maybe even some knife techniques - all things that are illegal in MMA.
Also, for boxing: Marcus Davis, Chris Lytle, the Nogueiras, BJ Penn, Nick Diaz, Takanori Gomi, Stephan Bonnar, etc etc. In other words, more people than you think. If you put a boxer up against someone untrained or only moderately trained in any art of fighting, the boxer is gonna fucking annihilate the guy 1000 times out of 1000. And I am not a boxing fan whatsoever, for the record. That’s just reality. It hasn’t gotten as much respect over the last few decades because it’s not all mysterious and “eastern”, but Bruce Lee recognized it as one of the most effective real fighting arts in the world.
I forgot judo, but: Karo Parysian, Rulon Gardner (won his only mma fight against fellow judoka Yoshida), etc etc. Probably also a lot more people than you think. Brazilian jiu jitsu is based on judo.
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### Author:  [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/13 "2009-01-07T01:06:21Z")
> [@Cardinal](#):
>
> Watching the successful fighters in the UFC, Pride, and Affliction, you can see that very successful people have started in all of these, but less so for judo and boxing. Apparently, being a decent striker but very good ground-gamer outweighs the opposite, because taking someone down often does more to change the fight for the rest of the round than throwing jabs does.
>
> Sambo - Fedor E.
> BJJ - The Gracies (of course), Frank Mir, and so many others
> GR wrestling: Randy Couture
> F Wrestling: Brock Lesnar, Matt Lindland
> Krav Magra: I don’t know of one
> Muy Tai: Nogiera, Anderson Silva
>
> Of course, many of these guys have gone on to cross train in the techniques of others.
Fight my ignorance a bit more: how many guys have succeeded coming out of more stereototypically showy “chop socky” disciplines (I guess kung fu, karate, kick boxing, TKD?) that don’t necessarily hone your grappling skills?
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### Author:  [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/14 "2009-01-07T01:15:37Z")
> [@Huerta88](#):
>
> Fight my ignorance a bit more: how many guys have succeeded coming out of more stereototypically showy “chop socky” disciplines (I guess kung fu, karate, kick boxing, TKD?) that don’t necessarily hone your grappling skills?
I don’t know what chop socky means but I think I know what you’re getting at.
Old school: Jason Delucia
New school: Cung Le (so far), Lyoto Machida (though he can grapple), Georges St. Pierre (also a world-class grappler), Chuck Liddell (wrestled in high school and I think college but never really showed it in MMA competition) . . . lots of guys have bases in traditional martial arts. Anyone under 35 has probably walked into a McDojo at some point in their youth and some MMA stars got started in them and stayed in them for years. Evolving past it and learning grappling is essential to competing in MMA, though.
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### Author:  [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/15 "2009-01-07T03:37:03Z")
I had a brain fart. Rulon Gardner is a wrestler, of course. I was thinking of Yoshida and typing while talking on the phone and my fingers were obviously free associating by themselves and not in cahoots with my brain.
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### Author:  [@Claptree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claptree)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2009, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/16 "2009-01-07T06:41:53Z")
> [@Cardinal](#):
>
> Watching the successful fighters in the UFC, Pride, and Affliction, you can see that very successful people have started in all of these, but less so for judo and boxing. Apparently, being a decent striker but very good ground-gamer outweighs the opposite, because taking someone down often does more to change the fight for the rest of the round than throwing jabs does.
>
> Sambo - Fedor E.
> BJJ - The Gracies (of course), Frank Mir, and so many others
> GR wrestling: Randy Couture
> F Wrestling: Brock Lesnar, Matt Lindland
> Krav Magra: I don’t know of one
> Muy Tai: Nogiera, Anderson Silva
>
> Of course, many of these guys have gone on to cross train in the techniques of others.
I would say that the Nogueira brothers should be listed under BJJ as well, even if they’ve both become fairly skilled boxers since. Look at Big Nog’s earlier fights in Pride - he was almost all about the submissions.
---
### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/17 "2009-01-07T16:24:04Z")
> [@Huerta88](#):
>
> Fight my ignorance a bit more: how many guys have succeeded coming out of more stereototypically showy “chop socky” disciplines (I guess kung fu, karate, kick boxing, TKD?) that don’t necessarily hone your grappling skills?
Lots of guys get their start in traditonal martial arts, but they generally have to cross train and ramp their conditioning way up if they want to get very far. George St. Pierre started out as a Kyokushin Karate black belt, and that’s all he knew in his first fight. He’s branched out since then and studied wrestling, BJJ, and boxing.
---
### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/18 "2009-01-07T16:43:36Z")
> [@Cisco](#):
>
> It also depends if you’re trying to defend yourself on the streets or win a mixed martial arts competition.
>
> I haven’t studied krav maga much but I believe it relies heavily on things like neck strikes, biting, testicle strikes, and maybe even some knife techniques - all things that are illegal in MMA.
>
> Also, for boxing: Marcus Davis, Chris Lytle, the Nogueiras, BJ Penn, Nick Diaz, Takanori Gomi, Stephan Bonnar, etc etc. In other words, more people than you think. If you put a boxer up against someone untrained or only moderately trained in any art of fighting, the boxer is gonna fucking annihilate the guy 1000 times out of 1000. And I am not a boxing fan whatsoever, for the record. That’s just reality. It hasn’t gotten as much respect over the last few decades because it’s not all mysterious and “eastern”, but Bruce Lee recognized it as one of the most effective real fighting arts in the world.
>
> I forgot judo, but: Karo Parysian, Rulon Gardner (won his only mma fight against fellow judoka Yoshida), etc etc. Probably also a lot more people than you think. Brazilian jiu jitsu is based on judo.
Exactly what I was going to say, particularly Stephan Bonnar and Karo Parysian. Bonnar is a former Chicago Golden Gloves champion, and Parysian is a Judo black belt who won the junior national championship several times and competed in the Olympic trials. Most people don’t realize the connection between BJJ and Judo, but Judo was fundamental in BJJ’s development. The man who first taught the Gracie clan, Mitsuyo Maeda, was a Judoka who studied at the Kodokan Judo institute in Japan.
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### Author:  [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/19 "2009-01-07T17:08:20Z")
> [@pravnik](#):
>
> Most people don’t realize the connection between BJJ and Judo, but Judo was fundamental in BJJ’s development. The man who first taught the Gracie clan, Mitsuyo Maeda, was a Judoka who studied at the Kodokan Judo institute in Japan.
Helio Gracie was also famously defeated by the judoka Masahiko Kimura - the namesake of the reverse ude-garami “Kimura” armlock that we still see commonly in MMA today.
---
### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expalin-sambo-fighting-to-me/480109/20 "2009-01-07T17:18:30Z")
> [@Cisco](#):
>
> Helio Gracie was also famously defeated by the judoka Masahiko Kimura - the namesake of the reverse ude-garami “Kimura” armlock that we still see commonly in MMA today.
Sure did - broke his arm in two places with it after he refused to submit, if I remember right. When I was watching Royce Gracie in the fight against Matt Hughes caught in Hughes armbar, and I saw Royce staring straight ahead and clenching his jaw and breathing through his nostrils, I remembered Helio and Kimura and thought “ohshitohshitohshit _he’s going to let him break his arm!_” :eek:
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