# Expensive grocery store going bust **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 3, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433 "2020-02-03T16:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/21 "2020-02-04T15:55:41Z")
I can’t be the only person on the planet who never says “WalMart.” That place is WallyWorld to me. In smaller communities such as Beckdawrek’s, when WalMart comes in, other stores evaporate. It truly IS WallyWorld. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/22 "2020-02-04T15:59:24Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > It’s called Whole Foods. Some people think it’s clever or funny to call it Whole Paycheck for some reason. They then run that “joke” into the ground. I, for one, am glad that they are not getting free advertising, and instead are getting roasted with every mention ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/23 "2020-02-04T16:41:12Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > I, for one, am glad that they are not getting free advertising, and instead are getting roasted with every mention Yeah man, sick burn. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/24 "2020-02-04T16:44:27Z")
we have another small chain with lots of organic stuff and high prices , Fresh Market. I wonder how long they will survive. They have 159 stores in SE and mid Atlantic. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/25 "2020-02-04T16:56:35Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > I can’t be the only person on the planet who never says “WalMart.” That place is WallyWorld to me. > > In smaller communities such as Beckdawrek’s, when WalMart comes in, other stores evaporate. It truly IS WallyWorld. > ~VOW I’ve seen it called MallWart. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/26 "2020-02-04T17:05:42Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Lucky’s Market, another organic/healthy ingredient chain, announced [they’re closing 32 out of 39 stores.](https://progressivegrocer.com/luckys-market-confirms-store-closure-reports) > > Lucky’s is owned by Kroger, so I don’t think deep pockets was its problem. No, Kroger was only a minority owner, and they [wanted out](https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-whats-next-for-luckys-market-after-kroger-divests-20191218-upq7jyc7zzayzbefubjkdrua44-story.html). Kroger’s decision to divest seems to have triggered the bankruptcy filing. In Springfield, Missouri, Dillons (Kroger subsidiary) pulled out some years ago, and local chains Smitty’s and Consumers Markets are likewise gone. WallyWorld it is. ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/27 "2020-02-04T17:10:50Z")
Huh. I didn’t even know there was an Earth Fare in the Triangle. No worries, though–Publix has gained a foothold, and Wegman’s is coming in! AFAIC, these organic, bougie, overpriced stores can all go belly-up. Their customers–sorry, _guests_ are for the most part, insufferable and entitled. I can’t go in those places without coming out steaming. ---
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/28 "2020-02-04T17:56:01Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > yes whole foods a supposedly 100 percent organic was considered one of if not the most expensive grocery store chain in America for many years … I think amazon has brought their prices down but its still expensive I don’t believe they ever were (or claimed to be) 100% organic. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/29 "2020-02-04T18:00:59Z")
We have lots of different grocery chains in suburban Philly. Wegman’s (my usual), Acme, Giant, Aldi, Weiss, Gigante, Redner’s, Shoprite, etc. In my experience, the grocery sections in department stores (such as Walmart and Target) don’t have near the selection of real grocery stores. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/30 "2020-02-04T20:51:30Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > we have another small chain with lots of organic stuff and high prices , Fresh Market. I wonder how long they will survive. They have 159 stores in SE and mid Atlantic. Ah, yes, we have something called “Fresh Thyme” which is shadow-owned by Meijer, but I can’t shop there, because aside from produce and meat, everything is some store brand hippie commune stuff, and all the the produce is overpriced because it has the meaningless “organic” appellation. I suppose I _could_ shop there, but it would take me an hour instead of 10 minutes, which I examine every damned thing on the shelf. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/31 "2020-02-04T20:56:09Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > “Natural” and “organic” are largely ripoffs and in many case are worse for the environment. I don’t normally call people on things, but if you’re going to claim that organic is worse for the environment, you’re going to have to provide some pretty good proof. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/32 "2020-02-04T21:53:22Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > I don’t normally call people on things, but if you’re going to claim that organic is worse for the environment, you’re going to have to provide some pretty good proof. For many things, organic takes more acres to produce the same amount of food, thus destroying more trees and natural habitats. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/33 "2020-02-04T21:59:21Z")
I doubt that many virgin old-growth forests are being leveled to create organic farms. Instead, most organic farming is taking place on acreage already being used for farming. Sometimes this is land currently being used to grow low-value crops like corn or soybeans. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/34 "2020-02-04T22:37:49Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > For many things, organic takes more acres to produce the same amount of food, thus destroying more trees and natural habitats. Cite your source please. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/35 "2020-02-04T23:13:11Z")
Organic farming yields are significantly lower for most (not all) crops. Here’s some direct USDA stats/charts. > **[USDA ERS - Despite Profit Potential, Organic Field Crop Acreage Remains Low](https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2015/november/despite-profit-potential-organic-field-crop-acreage-remains-low/)** > > USDA survey data show that organic systems had lower yields and higher total economic costs than conventional systems. Organic corn and soybeans have been profitable, primarily due to the significant price premiums paid for certified organic crops... Here’s charts from an organization ‘Genetic Literacy Project’ that’s controversial on funding and associations (relationship to GMO seed producing company Monsanto) but here it’s a presentation of USDA stats. > **[USDA data confirm organic yields significantly lower than with conventional...](https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/02/16/usda-data-confirm-organic-yields-dramatically-lower-conventional-farming/)** > > Government data comparing yields of organic vs. conventional farms finds a sharp yield edge for conventional on more than 84 percent of crops. The part about requires more forest to be converted to farm land isn’t as simple a claim to make or refute obviously. But think of that on a global basis and in terms of a wholesale switch to organic methods. Then I think that’s a pretty reasonable claim of a potential\* backwash against the overall environment, since tropical deforestation for example is driven in many cases by growing overall agricultural demand. If you’re just talking about a marginal increase in the relatively small proportion of agriculture currently organic, and say just in the US\*\* then it’s not as true. But in the big picture feeding a still growing world population with lower yielding agriculture would be an issue that can’t necessarily be hand waved away. OTOH that’s unlikely to happen. Organic or even non-GMO is a market niche and is likely to remain so on a global basis. \*though it wouldn’t 100% necessarily be true depending how damaging a given set of farming methods are for the environment beyond the particular land being farmed, fertilizer run off for example. \*\*forests aren’t as clearly better for the macro environment in the temperate zones as in the tropics. And there is plenty of land in the US that was once farmed, the East particularly, that went back to forest after the Midwest, and West to some degree, developed as agricultural areas using better farmland (though also forest cover went back up in part from people not burning as much wood for heat). But it tends to be more marginal land, that’s why it went back to forest, so a cost impact at least to ramp up production with lower yielding methods. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/36 "2020-02-04T23:21:28Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > 39 stores to Kroger is pocket change. They have 3000+ stores. Kroger left this area last year. Sounds like they may be having financial issues. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/37 "2020-02-04T23:42:36Z")
Thanks **Corry El**. An organic farming couple I know bought their neighbor’s farm a few years ago and has had a rough time getting good organic yield on it. She says it’s because the good microbes need to build back up in the soil. She’s been running her farm organically for about 30 years and it looks positively lush compared to her new land. The difference is interesting, even after three growing seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/38 "2020-02-04T23:57:49Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > wow, marshes went out? they and Krogers were the big stores in the 80s in Indiana … i suppose the "superstores " like Meijers drove them out … Yeah Marsh closed for good about 3 years ago. Now there are a variety of empty stores which may be bought out and turned into other stores, not sure. The one in midtown Bloomington that became a Luckys closed long before the chain closed down. The north side Marsh in Bloomington is now a Kroger. West side one is Fresh Thyme. No idea about the east side one. I don’t think Meijers drove them out. Marsh had prices far higher than any other competitor so a lot of people stopped shopping there. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/39 "2020-02-06T04:50:22Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > In smaller communities such as Beckdawrek’s, when WalMart comes in, other stores evaporate. It truly IS WallyWorld. As someone who lived in one of those smaller communities I actually appreciated it when Walmart arrived. Local businesses were pretty crummy and I had to drive to Little Rock to do a lot of my shopping. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2020, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433/40 "2020-02-06T15:02:37Z")
> [@](#): > > So mostly it comes down to how much each person values saving money vs. saving time/effort. Except your writeup says nothing at all about saving time, only that some stores are cheaper. And can you give an example of “service” that pricier stores offer? Whether I go into Fresh Thyme or Meijer, the service is just the same. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-grocery-store-going-bust/847433.md?page=3)