# Expensive suits won by "average guys"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 29, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131 "2010-05-29T01:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/21 "2010-05-29T13:58:39Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > An FBI special agent starts at around 64K, plus possibly a 22K relocation bonus to go to DC. He’s been around long enough that it wouldn’t surprise me if he had a few nice suits. I don’t see myself wearing or buying $1200 suits on a 64K salary, but then again, I don’t have a need for suits. An occasional $1200 lens, though, isn’t out of reach. So I suppose that it’s possible. More so if the FBI pays for damaged personal property as a result of the job. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/22 "2010-05-29T14:13:17Z")
I have to wear a suit most days to work, and I have some suits that I paid $200 (or maybe $300 and change, no more) some years ago, a few of them at Brooks Brothers (off the BB rack, not custom-tailored) and I look pretty good in them, I think. I see the prices some friends and colleagues pay, however (600 and up) and wonder whether they look so much sharper than I do. Indeed, they often compliment me when I wear one of my better suits to work. I can accept that their suits might well last longer than mine, but to my untrained eye, my off-the-rack, on-sale stuff looks comparable to their hand-tailored stuff. Or am I just a self-deceiving ignoramus? ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/23 "2010-05-29T14:15:02Z")
> [@Ronald\_C.Semone](#): > > Interesting what people think is important. A few months ago there was a thread on how much people pay for watches. A lot of people said they pay $500 and up for a watch. I was dismissed because I said I go to the local CVS and buy for $10 a watch that keeps perfect time. Yet a lot of people think $1200 for a suit is extravagant. Unlike watches there is a tremendous difference between a $300 suit and a $1200 suit, in how it fits, how it looks, the compliments you receive, etc. My goal is a $3000 custom-made suit of Italian silk. (I can dream.) I guess I am on the opposite end of that. I think expensive suits are extravagant because very few can tell the difference. Imagine pulling 100 average Joes off the streets of cities across the country. (Many of them may own one or two suits, a few of them will wear suits daily because they are required to, some will never have owned a suit). Now show them a series of high-quality glossy photographs of the same attractive model wearing $300-$400 suits and $1200-$2000 suits. My guess would be that 98 out of the 100 Joes would be unable to achieve much better than a 50-50% guess at which is which. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/24 "2010-05-29T14:52:03Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > $64k doesn’t actually get you that far in the DC area … I can get non-top label bespoke suits tailored for $600-$800 that are indistinguishable from Armani, Brooks, Hackett, et cetera, save for the label. $800 for bespoke? You can’t _possibly_. Not in DC. Not anywhere on the east coast. (And if you can, for og’s sake give me your tailor’s number. :D) Not _ **bespoke** _, anyway, which properly used means _ **fully custom tailored** _, right down to the canvas coat fronts, multiple fittings, and wide choice of materials, details, and cut. Are you sure you don’t mean _ **made to measure** _? > [@](#): > > But women’s clothes are less expensive, even for a greater complexity of tailoring. The tailoring is fancier, but it’s actually _less_ complex. Many things about men’s clothes are not well known, because men’s knowledge of clothes is limited by gender role expectations. One of them is that they have to fit a lot better than women’s clothes _and_ last a lot longer. That’s because men generally want a more basic wardrobe of clothes, and want to move more freely in them. That is what costs money. Add in options like fabric, detail and cut and the cost becomes very steep indeed. > [@](#): > > An FBI guy wearing a $1200 suit … is going to stick out like a Marine at a Toastmasters meeting. Might not be the best analogy there. One of the worst mistakes a new Marine can make is to have his dress blues tailored to a custom fit. His buddies _will_ notice, and will instill unit cohesion on his ass. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/25 "2010-05-29T14:53:35Z")
I recently posted this in another thread, but it seems appropriate here: _Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy, But not express’d in fancy; rich, not gaudy; For the apparel oft proclaims the man;_ ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/26 "2010-05-29T15:01:47Z")
There’s a dryly funny short story about this - [_Clothes Make The Man_](http://books.google.com/books?id=TbWckm9PqXsC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false), written by Nunnally Johnson in 1939. It concerns a prissy hotel manager who risks everything to evict a model tenant just because of his goofy taste in clothing. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/27 "2010-05-29T15:07:05Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > $64k doesn’t actually get you that far in the DC area, especially if you have to live inside the Beltway (even outside of G-Town). Knock that down to about $40k relative the Midwest, and factor in the long hours/high stress nature of law enforcement which is not going to give you time to spend weekends bargain shopping. Where are you living in DC that you think “$64k doesn’t get you that far”? I’ve lived inside the beltway my whole life, much of it earning less (much less at times) than $45k and I lived more than comfortably on that, and not in shitty neighborhoods either. Bear in mind that an agent with Booth’s position and assignments doesn’t really have that much free time to be spending money. Field agents are **required** to log at least 50-60 hour weeks. That $64k figure is for **new** agents. Special agents with 10 years [earn up to _$120k_](http://fbiagentsalary.com/). He could easily afford a closet full of $1200 suits. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/28 "2010-05-29T16:30:10Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Not _ **bespoke** _, anyway, which properly used means _ **fully custom tailored** _, right down to the canvas coat fronts, multiple fittings, and wide choice of materials, details, and cut. Are you sure you don’t mean _ **made to measure** _? There’s a tailor in Georgetown (it’s been several years but I’ll find his number if you’re interested) that for about $300 would put in a couple fittings (maybe more, but it never took me more than twice) and redo much of the suits I brought in. In the end I only had six $6-800 suits and it took a year or two to bring them in, but the outcome was phenomenal. I ended up there following my father’s advice. I used to just get the basic cuffs 'n collar alterations done, but he set me on that path. Having a suit custom tailored brings it to a whole new level, one that is extraordinarily noticeable. Not that someone would say, “wow, Rhythm, you sure do have nice tailoring on that suit,” but that the way it fit and moved was clearly distinguishable from those that had yet to be altered: suits that looked good before looked great afterwards. ETA: Wow, you gotta love Google Maps. I found it: [Field Tailors](http://www.fieldtailors.com/) ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/29 "2010-05-29T16:41:59Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > So far, no one here has claimed that they even own a $1200 suit. I am guessing it is fairly rare. My one and only “suit” costs a bit more than that, especially if you include the shoes that were bought to go with it. Most male clothes (I’ve said this before, sorry for the repeat…)… most male clothes fall into two categories: • comfortable, cheap, _looks_ comfortable and cheap, everyday wear. Totally cookie-cutter guy-wear (jeans, t-shirt, some variations in undies and sox and shoes) • uncomfortable (to me at least), not quite so cheap (but not truly expensive either), ALSO looks totally cookie-cutter like it came out of Ken doll factories, no significant style changes since oh I dunno 1900 or thereabouts (dark blazer jacket with 2 buttons and wide V opening above the topmost button; standard dress shirt with triangular collars, single row of small white buttons, two-button sleeve cuffs, buttons all the way to neck, in various colors; necktie; dark pants in thin material, loose-fitting, pants pockets cut rather stupidly along the sides, with or without innocuous bottom cuffs depending on era). Clownish. If you want to dress up and look _nice_ and also _different_ you get to spend a lot of money on it. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/30 "2010-05-29T16:44:47Z")
Thank you kindly **Rhythmdvl**. It might be more than worth the train ticket to talk to these guys. In New York, where I am now, tailoring at any but the very highest price brackets is a real hit-or-miss proposition. Quality work doesn’t necessarily keep you in business, nor shoddy work send you out of it. New York tailors tend to be workmanlike, with no knowledge of styles beyond what they’ve already been exposed to. If you want your pant cuffs 1/4" wider than “traditional,” or want your jacket hourglassed when they’d rather just move the buttons in, they’ll talk you out of it, quote an ultra-high price or just ignore your requests. The attitude seems to be that the person with the skills gets to make the decisions. ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/31 "2010-05-29T16:51:58Z")
My brother-in-law is very label conscious and prefers to spend a lot of money on clothes. (As opposed to spending money on golf, or a boat or electronics) Before he changed his career focus to administration jobs for not-for-profits he would spend that much on suits. I think now he keeps it closer to the $500 to $800 range. My uncle loves, Loves, LOVES a bargain and squeezes every possible benefit out of sales and “preferred customer” type perks and likes to keeps his suits more in the neighborhood of $200. I suspect that for the TV show the writers would choose a figure that would make the greatest number of people watching would perceive it as a really really expensive suit, even when they watch it on USA ten years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/32 "2010-05-29T17:20:56Z")
Huh, and I thought this was going to be yet another thread about pro se legal representation. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/33 "2010-05-29T17:51:03Z")
> [@gwendee](#): > > My uncle loves, Loves, LOVES a bargain and squeezes every possible benefit out of sales and “preferred customer” type perks and likes to keeps his suits more in the neighborhood of $200. Nothing wrong with that as long as you don’t _want_ to look like you’re wearing $200 suits. Michael Dukakis was famous for buying every scrap of clothes at Filene’s Basement while he was governor of Massachusetts, but he was always careful to be well tailored and well put together. (Well, except for that unfortunate tanker helmet…) A counterexample would be Ralph Nader, who makes dowdy sloppiness a badge of honor. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/34 "2010-05-29T18:11:20Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > On a similar note, I wonder how middle-class people in professions or workplaces that require suits pull it off. Do they struggle to buy a wardrobe of $500 suits, get away with cheap or thrift store suits, or just own a couple of suits that they wear over and over again? Cleaning expenses must also add up. I have several different types of suits. Some are very nice and expensive and worn on special occassions. LOts of good to ok “work” suits and a few really crappy ones. I wear the expensive ones when I am in the High Court and the less expensive ones when in Bumfuck Magistrates Court. Of course, in the High Court, I wear a gown with a stiff collar and bands, I sometimes wonder if I should switch it around ---
**Author:** ![sharding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@sharding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sharding)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/35 "2010-05-29T18:14:57Z")
#1. $1200 isn’t “an expensive suit.” It’s a mid-range suit. Most people would consider it a fair bit of money for a single outfit, but in context it’s just the middle of the pack. #2. Expensive suits are better even if “very few can tell the difference.” They fit better, are more comfortable and – most importantly – are better constructed, so they last longer. Yes, of course you can buy suits that are expensive because of the brand rather than the quality, but that’s true in anything. As much as I wish it were different, there is no $500 suit that is truly as good as a quality $2000 suit. It may be that you don’t wear suits often enough to justify spending money on a good one, and that’s totally fine, but it doesn’t mean the difference doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/36 "2010-05-29T19:37:07Z")
Can I ask where you buy a $1200 suit? If I wanted to buy a $1200 suit, I have no idea where I’d find one. Brooks Brothers isn’t near that expensive and neither is Thomas Pinks (of London, and lately, Wall Street). I suppose my idea of fancy is rather plebian!! However, really, I just can’t see the point in paying that for off the rack – at $1200, I’d expect at least made-to-measure. Does the off-the-rack $1200 suit really exist? BTW, I don’t count the shoes, belts, shirts, or other accessories in the cost of a suit. People who wear suits regularly wear the same shoes with more than one suit. Similarly, dress shirts. It is part of the cost of correct attire, but not part of the cost of a “suit” as I mean it. ---
**Author:** ![sharding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@sharding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sharding)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/37 "2010-05-29T19:40:32Z")
Brooks Brothers is easily that expensive if you buy the good ones (Golden Fleece). Those are about $2k, but you can get them on sale. Even on sale they’re more than $1200. I like Brooks Brothers a lot, but I don’t really consider them “high end.” If you want to exclude bespoke, I’d look at brands like Kiton. Here’s a place in Seattle that has some good stuff: [http://marios.com/](http://marios.com/) ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/38 "2010-05-29T19:46:32Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Can I ask where you buy a $1200 suit? If I wanted to buy a $1200 suit, I have no idea where I’d find one. Brooks Brothers isn’t near that expensive and neither is Thomas Pinks (of London, and lately, Wall Street). I suppose my idea of fancy is rather plebian!! However, really, I just can’t see the point in paying that for off the rack – at $1200, I’d expect at least made-to-measure. Does the off-the-rack $1200 suit really exist? > > BTW, I don’t count the shoes, belts, shirts, or other accessories in the cost of a suit. People who wear suits regularly wear the same shoes with more than one suit. Similarly, dress shirts. It is part of the cost of correct attire, but not part of the cost of a “suit” as I mean it. [Hickey Freeman](http://www.hickeyfreeman.com/website/dept.asp?s_id=1&dept_name=Suits&dept_id=4088&WT.svl=deptnav2). $1200 won’t even get you in the door. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/39 "2010-05-29T20:34:41Z")
Another factor in cost these days is label appeal. There are many OTR suits that are more expensive than MTM suits of similar quality would be, simply because of designer appeal. Custom-made has lost a lot of its style cachet because anything but a standard conservative look has become very expensive. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131/40 "2010-05-29T21:15:04Z")
FBI Special Agents (and a surprising number of LEOs in mid upper tiers) often make more 6 figures with overtime, and they are usually required to be in excellent shape. If I was a single man in excellent shape making over 6 figures a $ 1200 suit would not be an absurd purchase. A good suit will take you long way in making a good first impression with sophisticated women, and in being taken seriously by your peers and others you work with. There are also a lot a people it won’t matter to, but having it vs not having it is rarely a negative. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/expensive-suits-won-by-average-guys/541131.md?page=3)