# Experience required... experience required... experience required... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2007, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042 "2007-05-22T06:21:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/41 "2007-05-22T19:49:02Z")
[QUOTE=niblet\_head] Actually, stations must meet EEO requirements anytime they have a position open, regardless of when their licenses come up for renewal. And if they have a website, they have to post EEO information there to demonstrate that they’ve advertised/posted their positions in media and with organizations so that the positions are made known to female and minority candidates. They also have to keep this information in their Public File subject to review by the FCC and the public at anytime. For radio stations, it’s not that they mean to pull your chain. It’s that they’re required to. [/QUOTE] I know, but this was license renewal season. They also didn’t have a position open (that I knew about, and I know where they post actual openings). I’m guessing that they needed to beef up their resume file. At least I didn’t waste any time applying for that. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/42 "2007-05-22T20:07:43Z")
That wouldn’t surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/43 "2007-05-22T21:46:20Z")
[QUOTE=Mbossa] All the fast food experience in the world won’t get you a job that needs, say, two years’ experience in the IT industry. [/QUOTE] A friend of mine took a minimum-wage counter job at Burger King when he was 16. About five months into the job, the POS (point-of-sale) system stopped behaving, so they could no longer take orders with great efficiency and had to use the backup system instead. After waiting over two hours for the tech guy from the POS company to show up, my friend rummaged around in the manager’s office and found the manual, and fixed it himself. (It just needed a reset.) Long story short, after some similar incidents, word got around that this burger-flipper had mastered the proprietary POS software and was maintaining systems for several nearby franchises for half the money that they were paying the POS company tech guy that never showed up. (All the while still flipping burgers.) POS company offered him a job, and four years later he now manages their entire network in the southwest US. ---
**Author:** ![Nightsong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nightsong/32/3083_2.png) [@Nightsong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightsong)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/44 "2007-05-22T22:36:08Z")
[QUOTE=TroubleAgain] I actually do have entry level positions. But it’s hard to fill them because, while they actually pay pretty well, they’re part-time. The people who usually end up filling them are looking to gain exactly what I can give them, which is work experience, and a foot in the door of the IT industry. [/QUOTE] And as I see your location is central Florida, I’d think that they only people who could afford to have just a part time job would be students, doing as you say: getting experience and their foot in the door, which reduces your pool of potential applicants quite a lot. (Heck if I were still in school and someone in my area was doing part-time jobs in my preferred IT niche, I’d be doing the same thing!) And overall yea the classic catch-22 about experience and jobs is still alive and well. Need experience to get a job, need a job to get experience. I can understand in some fields you wouldn’t want to trust everything to a newbie, but internships only give so much experience (assuming you can find a compatible internship), so somehow there’s gotta be a magic experience granting fairy to make up the difference. * * * \<\< Ultimate office automation: networked coffee. \>\> ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/45 "2007-05-22T23:43:15Z")
[QUOTE=Chimera] In the IT world, like clockwork as a new software package/programming language/platform came out, some dumbass HR person would start throwing out ads demanding 5 or 10 years of experience with something that didn’t exist last week. [/QUOTE] When I graduated with my IT degree in 2003 nearly every ad asked for 2-4 years of experience in Flash MX, a program that only came out in 2002. Oh, and it didn’t matter what the job was, they all wanted Flash experience. Is it any wonder I’ve left the IT world behind to be a librarian? Well, partially behind, I’m the librarian that maintains the computers. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/46 "2007-05-23T00:09:48Z")
[QUOTE=Autolycus] I wasn’t hired at a Starbucks because I “did not have enough coffee experience.” [/QUOTE] “Do you have any previous experience in food and beverage preparation and handling?” “I shoved a spoon up me bum once.” “Security!” ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/47 "2007-05-23T00:46:56Z")
Thanks for the commentary so far, folks. I just needed to vent. I don’t expect anyone to know my exact situation (and I’m not gonna bore everyone with it), but y’all have given me a lot to think about. What I find the most interesting, though, is the opposition to the old piece of advice “never EVER lie on your resume; you’ll get caught and you’ll never work again.” Is that something just spread to discourage the kind of “fighting against corporate stupidity” recommendations made by folks on this thread? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/48 "2007-05-23T01:02:56Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] What I find the most interesting, though, is the opposition to the old piece of advice “never EVER lie on your resume; you’ll get caught and you’ll never work again.” Is that something just spread to discourage the kind of “fighting against corporate stupidity” recommendations made by folks on this thread? [/QUOTE] You’ll learn when to lie. For example, no one is going to know if you managed a team of ten or a team of 50. You can strech your salary, but most companies know the approximate range that their competitiors pay. However, if you’re changing industries, you can embelish it a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/49 "2007-05-23T01:19:32Z")
Hey, man, Burger King don’t talk to Wendy’s. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/50 "2007-05-23T02:06:44Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] Because, if employers could hire whoever they wanted, the only people with jobs would be their friends and attractive, bisexual blonde women with large breasts. [/QUOTE] That is so not true, and I resent your implication. Bisexual brunette women with large breasts would be perfectly good candidates in such a scenario as well. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/51 "2007-05-23T02:38:19Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Leaper, I don’t know how old you are, but maybe not to old to do what I did while still in school. I worked as an unpaid volunteer in college while I had a job at the local Dairy Queen for bills. The unpaid volunteer job, as a dj and radio commercial producer at the college radio station, was what led directly to my first professional job in Champaign, IL. [/QUOTE] This was basically how I got into radio (minus the Dairy Queen gig). And it’s true - working as an unpaid staffer at a radio station can be a stepping stone to actual jobs in radio, where you can work horrible hours for lunatics for pitiful pay. Sort of fun, though. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/52 "2007-05-23T03:37:27Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] There’s no such thing as an entry level job anymore. [/QUOTE] There currently are over 1400 entry level jobs (GS 1 through 4) in the US Government. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/53 "2007-05-23T04:13:21Z")
Hmmm… Government work… That has its upsides and downsides… Where are the best “clearing houses” to find such positions? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/54 "2007-05-23T04:19:43Z")
[Straight to the source](http://federaljobs.net/federal_jobs_opening.htm). ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/55 "2007-05-23T07:23:18Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] They don’t want general experience, they want exact experience in the exact kind of job and in the exact field. This is partly lack of imagination, partly due to the usage of computer filters, partly because often the hiring manager doesn’t know what is it the position really entails. [/quote] Well then the complaint should have been, “There are no entry-level jobs in X field”, not “There are no entry-level jobs”. Did we establish what X is? Like I said, lots of fields have internship programs for this very reason. > [@](#): > > I’ve seen ads requiring “five years experience with Windows 98” (the year was 2000); “superior engineer (this degree takes seven years) with an MBA, preferably in Marketing, trilingual English /German/French, with at least 2 years working in industrial environments, under 25yo” (I should have framed that one); “for a position as production manager in a company making (a product made by two companies in the whole world), an industrial engineer with at least five years’ experience as a production manager in a company making (the exact same product)” - according to the grapevine, the “other” company making this product had just stolen these ones’ production manager :smack: Sure, but I didn’t know this was a “share your idiotic classified ads stories” thread. Heck, I saw an ad where they wanted “copying” experience. Hmmm…you put the paper on the glass and you press the button. Yep - I think I can handle that. On the resume thing, I honestly don’t think a little white lie here and there is such a horrible thing. Put your typing speed from your _best_ day, not your worst day. If they want experience in version 5.2 of the word processing program, and you learned on 5.1, just say you know 5.2. Really, how hard could it be to figure out once you get the job? I know it’s not easy to get your first job, but that’s nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/56 "2007-05-23T09:43:32Z")
[QUOTE=kidchameleon] I’m on the other end of the spectrum. We need a lab tech or two near D.C. No working experience required, just at least some college chemistry courses, maybe an A.S. But after two months, not a single resume. Took six months in Chicago to fill the same type of job. Sheesh, you really wonder about people complaining about the job market. [/QUOTE] Um… when you say ‘D.C’… I don’t suppose you mean ‘London, D.C.’? Never mind. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/57 "2007-05-23T14:54:15Z")
[QUOTE=Eonwe] I’m back at the other end of the spectrum. In my town, when looking for lab techs, almost every position is looking for minimum 2 years experience, a BS in chemistry, some assorted non-related technical background, and all for $19,000 a year! [/QUOTE] This is what I noticed too when I was unemployed. “Looking for experienced technician with 5 years experience in field, BS or greater in Engineering or related field. Pay $8.50-$10 an hour depending on experience.” LMFAO. 😃 You’re shitting me, right??? Someone with a BS in an engineering field around here is going to be commanding 2-3X that much. AT LEAST. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/58 "2007-05-23T15:14:32Z")
I had come in to add the opening I saw advertised for a programming position requiring 5 years of Java experience when java had only been out for a bit over two years. But I see that scenario has been covered a couple of times already. OTOH, it will happen again with whatever the next new tech is. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/59 "2007-05-23T15:16:37Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] Thanks for the commentary so far, folks. I just needed to vent. I don’t expect anyone to know my exact situation (and I’m not gonna bore everyone with it), but y’all have given me a lot to think about. What I find the most interesting, though, is the opposition to the old piece of advice “never EVER lie on your resume; you’ll get caught and you’ll never work again.” Is that something just spread to discourage the kind of “fighting against corporate stupidity” recommendations made by folks on this thread? [/QUOTE] Nonononono. See, this is the Pit. In any other forum, we’d be telling you to “market yourself up.” See the difference? Don’t ever lie, “a liar gets caught sooner than a one-legged runner.” But if you can claim to have “managed a lab”, do claim it. After all, 90% of the people in the hiring side have no idea what are the duties of a lab manager: if you say “distributed work stations and supplies, handled purchasing of equipment and materials, prepared and updated work procedures, trained coworkers” and list the rest of the stuff that a lab manager does and which I’ve done at jobs with other titles, they’ll file it under “lab drudge”. No, no, lab _manager_. Make sure to get the right keywords in, etc. You’re out to sell yourself, so do what anybody with a product does: market it! ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042/60 "2007-05-23T16:58:19Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] Don’t ever lie, “a liar gets caught sooner than a one-legged runner.” But if you can claim to have “managed a lab”, do claim it. [/QUOTE] This is a good point. I have a great job. I had actually applied for the exact same position a year or two previous to when I was hired, and didn’t get any response. I applied again but with a slightly different cover letter and resume. Basically, I work in tech support and was in a management position, but I explained that (due to IT shortages) I had to help with a lot of the day-to-day computer troubleshooting of our approximately 100 employee terminals. I still did that previously, but didn’t say so in the cover letter. My now present employer said in the interview that’s one of the things that impressed him the most. I was hired during the interview. I had every confidence that I could have done the job before… but I never got the chance to explain that in an interview. If you’re smart and competent, you need to get yourself into the interview to show that. That’s the great thing about cover letters. Explain why your experience is relevant to what they’re asking for. Even if you don’t meet it on paper, someone who can explain why their experience is applicable has a fighting chance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experience-required-experience-required-experience-required/405042.md?page=4)