# Experienced manager of money taking care of poverty stricken household's finances
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 14, 2012, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734 "2012-03-14T12:31:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/21 "2012-03-14T17:25:24Z")
> [@friedo](#):
>
> Are you sure? How much do you think the average financial advisor makes from a single client?
I have no idea, but I am sure that to a genuinely poor person it would be a very welcome windfall.
[QUOTE=friedo;14866854And what does any of your righteous indignation have to do with answering the question in the OP?[/QUOTE]
If the question is has this been tried, then no, I haven’t answered it, but there is a strong implication in the OP that it might be a good idea, or perhaps that they are wondering if it would be a good idea, to which my answer is hell no!
> [@friedo](#):
>
> _Till Debt Do Us Part_ can be found occasionally on CNBC in the States. There’s also an interesting (or exploitative, depending on how you look at it) HBO documentary called _Reversal of Fortune_. They give a homeless guy $100,000 and follow him to see what he does with it. A financial advisor gives him some excellent advice.
This scenario, on the other hand, is quite different from what is in the OP. Sure, if you are going to give a large sum (to them) sum of money to a poor person, it might very well be helpful to also provide them with some help and advice on managing it, and that might actually do them some good. It would still be pretty demeaning to make it into a TV show, but it does have a redeeming feature.
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### Author:  [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/22 "2012-03-14T17:31:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> it sounds like the families involved were middle class but with poor spending habits. That’s very different from what the OP is asking.
I would argue that it is _slightly_ different than what the OP was asking. And at least somewhat helpful. More helpful than telling someone that they’re wrong and not supplying anything to answer the OP.
BTW, the show has had episodes with unemployed people, divorced people, and people living in their parent’s basement. However, I realize this is difficult to know without having seen the show.
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### Author:  [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/23 "2012-03-14T17:39:13Z")
> [@hogarth](#):
>
> I’ve seen a few episodes where the parties involved are unemployed or underemployed (i.e. their financial problems weren’t **solely** a matter of overspending). Maybe not “poverty-stricken”, though; that’s a pretty vague term.
If I’m remembering correctly I don’t think she has featured couples with less than ~$30k/year household income. Not exactly living large, but not crushing poverty either. Plus usually at the low end the couple (plus any kids) are living in a relative’s basement for free.
But yes, the typical couple is making at least a comfortably middle-class income and the issue is massive overspending.
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### Author:  [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/24 "2012-03-14T17:50:40Z")
> [@hogarth](#):
>
> I’d probably agree with you, if I knew what the difference between “broke” and “poor” was.
Poor means you probably didn’t have any money in the recent past, you don’t have any now, and there doesn’t appear to be any good way to get any in the future. They are poor.
Broke is more of a statement about someone’s amount of liquid assets (cash) at any particular time. Lets say you get paid once a month, but it is a nice $5000 check. If you blow it on hookers and drugs, you are usually going to be broke in a week or so. You have no more money. But you are not poor, you make $5000 a month!
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### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/25 "2012-03-14T17:53:21Z")
> [@njtt](#):
>
> If the question is has this been tried, then no, I haven’t answered it, but there is a strong implication in the OP that it might be a good idea, or perhaps that they are wondering if it would be a good idea, to which my answer is hell no!
Why not? (And why emphatically not?)
I don’t think it’d be a great idea, since a single instance doesn’t allow for generalization. That’s why my question was just basically “has something like this been done” so I could look at it in more detail to see whether it supports any conclusions and if so what they are.
But it doesn’t strike me as the kind of thing I’d think “hell yes, let’s do that!” or “hell no, me mustn’t do that!” about. Why do you have the latter feeling?
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### Author:  [@LionelHutz405](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LionelHutz405)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/26 "2012-03-14T18:01:19Z")
> [@hogarth](#):
>
> I’d probably agree with you, if I knew what the difference between “broke” and “poor” was.
Broke: Have a decent amount of money coming in, but are having financial problems because it is spent stupidly.
Poor: Not much money coming in.
They don’t feature poor people because that problem isn’t so easily solved and it’s no fun to watch anyway.
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### Author:  [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/27 "2012-03-14T18:14:39Z")
> [@LionelHutz405](#):
>
> Broke: Have a decent amount of money coming in, but are having financial problems because it is spent stupidly.
>
> Poor: Not much money coming in.
>
> They don’t feature poor people because that problem isn’t so easily solved and it’s no fun to watch anyway.
They have featured people who have “not much money coming in” (e.g. husband is self-employed (barely), wife is stay-at-home mother). Not surprisingly, her first piece of advice in those cases is “get a better job or a second job”.
> [@Hermitian](#):
>
> Poor means you probably didn’t have any money in the recent past, you don’t have any now, and there doesn’t appear to be any good way to get any in the future.
It’s that third criterion that gets a bit subjective.
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### Author:  [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/28 "2012-03-14T18:30:41Z")
> [@njtt](#):
>
> If the question is has this been tried, then no, I haven’t answered it, but there is a strong implication in the OP that it might be a good idea, or perhaps that they are wondering if it would be a good idea, to which my answer is hell no!
Then your ignorance runs incredibly deep. It’s insulting for you to insinuate that those people can’t benefit from the basic instruction of a money manager. Most people would do well to learn the basics of budgeting, expense prioritization, lending, and compound interest. Poor people are no exception.
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### Author:  [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/29 "2012-03-14T18:41:13Z")
I think a money manager could help give poor people more financial discipline. If someone has grown up around bad financial habits, they may not know the best ways to handle money at a basic level. Things like:
- Deposit checks in a bank instead of using check cashing services.
- Pay bills on time to avoid late fees.
- Don’t pay bills at the grocery store. Pay online or through the mail to avoid fees.
- Never use payday loans.
- Smart use of credit cards (pay off or don’t use at all)
- How to create a savings
The show wouldn’t be about teaching them stock investment strategies. It would be more about understanding how much money they have coming in and ways to make sure they spend less than that. I think it could be interesting.
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### Author:  [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/30 "2012-03-14T19:07:41Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> I think a money manager could help give poor people more financial discipline. If someone has grown up around bad financial habits, they may not know the best ways to handle money at a basic level. Things like:
>
> - Deposit checks in a bank instead of using check cashing services.
> - Pay bills on time to avoid late fees.
> - Don’t pay bills at the grocery store. Pay online or through the mail to avoid fees.
> - Never use payday loans.
> - Smart use of credit cards (pay off or don’t use at all)
> - How to create a savings
>
> The show wouldn’t be about teaching them stock investment strategies. It would be more about understanding how much money they have coming in and ways to make sure they spend less than that. I think it could be interesting.
However you define “poverty-stricken”, these are all things that the money manager on “Til Debt Do Us Part” has shared with clients. Certainly a large number of the people on the show have problems with these issues (almost all have credit card debt, and I’ve seen numerous episodes dealing with payday loans, massive late fees, no savings, etc.)
“Til Debt” has covered the full range of income levels, from people making barely enough to survive (and living in someone’s basement), to a doctor making 6-figures. For people at the lowest levels, strategies to make more money have to be part of the money management plan. But very few people at any income level are living so responsibly that they can’t benefit from better financial education.
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### Author:  [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/31 "2012-03-14T19:17:42Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> …
>
> - Pay bills on time to avoid late fees…
This is a biggie. I know someone who apparently has a difficult time paying all their bills on time even though they appear to have the money. They apparently used me for a credit reference and I would get harassed to no end.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/32 "2012-03-14T22:46:37Z")
> [@njtt](#):
>
> Frankly, I find the implication that, in general, people are poor because they are bad at “managing” their money to be quite offensive.
It’s unfortunate you feel that way because it is quite often true.
Not always, but it sure does happen. Joseph Heath, who is quite liberal, notes in his “Filthy Lucre” that poor families tend to have appalling spending and money management habits; he spends most of a chapter on it, and it’s quite fascinating.
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### Author:  [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/33 "2012-03-14T23:45:53Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> - Deposit checks in a bank instead of using check cashing services.
I recently found out that banks do a credit check before allowing you to open a checking account. I had never heard that before. Plus, if you don’t carry a large balance, you have to pay monthly fees of $10 a month or more.
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### Author:  [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/34 "2012-03-15T13:54:42Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> I- Don’t pay bills at the grocery store. Pay online or through the mail to avoid fees.
Is this a U.S. thing? I’ve never heard of paying bills (like electric/water/phone bills) at a grocery store. Paying bills at the bank, yes. But a grocery store?
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### Author:  [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/35 "2012-03-15T14:58:21Z")
> [@hogarth](#):
>
> Is this a U.S. thing? I’ve never heard of paying bills (like electric/water/phone bills) at a grocery store. Paying bills at the bank, yes. But a grocery store?
Many of the grocery stores offer bill payment services for things like phone, cable, gas, and electric service. They usually charge fees, which may be $1-2 for each bill paid. The same bills can usually be paid with no fees online or through the mail, although this would require a credit card or check of some sort to send payment.
If they don’t have a bank account, they may be forced to use services like these to pay bills. First they lose lose 1-2% of their paycheck at a check cashing place and then a couple of dollars each time they pay a bill. These fees can add up and have a significant effect on their buying power.
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### Author:  [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/36 "2012-03-15T19:51:26Z")
I find this fascinating. Once upon a time, I was not really quite making the ends meet. I didn’t have a TV, so no cable. There was no internet or Starbuck’s back then. Most days, I ate Kraft Mac N Cheese, Ramen Noodles, or rice & beans. I had a very cheap car - with a small note, and one very low student loan. It was all I could do to make rent, pay for the car (gas, insurance, repairs, loan), keep the lights on, and eat. I even took a second job and I still didn’t really have enough to go around.
When I’d ask for advice, the first thing advisors told me was to pay myself first and start saving. Whuh? With what? My expenses were about 110% of my income, with both jobs. There was no place to cut from. I even sat down and listed out all my bills and sent it to my dad to see if he could find something to cut that I couldn’t. He called me and said he was sorry, but he just didn’t know what to tell me, except to pray and maybe god will take care of me. That was helpful and I noticed god never did start issuing payday loans.
It wasn’t until I’d worked my way up the corporate ladder for a few years – by hopping from one company to the next – until I had enough money that I could afford to save money and keep all the bills paid. Took another couple promotions before I could do things like get cable or eat out more than once a month.
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### Author:  [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/37 "2012-03-15T20:26:25Z")
> [@Cub\_Mistress](#):
>
> I recently found out that banks do a credit check before allowing you to open a checking account. I had never heard that before. Plus, if you don’t carry a large balance, you have to pay monthly fees of $10 a month or more.
This, or something similar, has been true for a long time. Way back in 1984 I moved from one city to another, and had occasion to change banks. I didn’t have any credit card at the time. I went to a dozen different banks, and the would not let me open savings or checking accounts because I didn’t have a credit card. It took me a long time to find a bank that would.
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### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/38 "2012-03-15T21:08:41Z")
> [@Senegoid](#):
>
> This, or something similar, has been true for a long time. Way back in 1984 I moved from one city to another, and had occasion to change banks. I didn’t have any credit card at the time. I went to a dozen different banks, and the would not let me open savings or checking accounts because I didn’t have a credit card. It took me a long time to find a bank that would.
This is strange. I’ve opened several checking accounts in the past several years and do not remember ever having to do a credit check. I can’t even think of a reason why they’d want one.
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### Author:  [@Mongo\_Ponton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mongo_Ponton)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/39 "2012-03-16T03:37:04Z")
I know of this happening currently.
A money manager several steps above financial planner is involved in a fraternal organisation and through their charity work became involved this way for several families.
One in particular he’s spent a lot of time on for several years. They are dirt poor (18-20000 range) and he manages their finances completely right down to which kid gets how much lunch money. I suspect but don’t know that he makes up shortfalls from time to time.
Some of his clients pay multiples of this family’s annual income in fees to him for advice.
I think the family would feel kind of conflicted. He’s certainly made things better for them but then here’s a guy that makes millions telling you to buy the cheap ice cream and only a quart at that.
But they’ve stuck at it and it’s been beneficial for both sides.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experienced-manager-of-money-taking-care-of-poverty-stricken-households-finances/615734/40 "2012-03-16T04:06:51Z")
> [@njtt](#):
>
> Frankly, I find the implication that, in general, people are poor because they are bad at “managing” their money to be quite offensive. It is a particularly pernicious form of victim blaming. With very few exceptions, people are poor simply because they do not have enough money, because their earnings are too low, and no amount of “managing” is going to fix that. They have no spare money to invest, and ways of saving money (beyond what they probably already do) generally involve an investment of time and energy that working poor almost never have available.
>
> Indeed, I very much suspect that most professional “money managers” have so little idea about how poor people have to live, that (unless they have to good sense to realize that there is essentially nothing they can or should do) any interventions that they might make would be likely to quickly make a bad situation worse.
I think this is correct. Most poor people suffer from a lack of money, not lack of money management skills. I doubt money management makes any difference to people who have to spend all their income on staying alive. Poor people don’t have debts, or at least debts that ever get paid. They don’t have credit cards or car loans. Their cell phones are prepaid. The small amounts of money they waste unnecessarily wouldn’t make a difference if they saved every penny.
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