last week and at a price of £1.45 per litre. So that would be about $7-8 dollars a gallon
I’m planning to go to Costco later today to fill my gas tank. It may take a half hour to do so, as there’s usually a long line. So the idea of being able to “refuel” at home by plugging in the car is appealing. (Obviously I could go elsewhere and not have to wait for a free gas pump but Costco has the lowest gas price in town.)
It’s not really different manufacturers, more Tesla and everybody else.
There are three standards to be aware of at the moment:
- J1772 — level 2 charging from an AC outlet or charger, up to 19.2kW, but usually 6-10kW
- CCS — level 3 DC fast charging, up to 350kW
- Tesla — level 2 and level 3, AC or DC, up to 300kW
Tesla is easily interoperable with J1772, and it is just a physical plug adapter that comes with the car. There are even adapters to go the other way, but not too common. They might be useful if your office or apartment has Tesla level 2 chargers, but at the moment are a rare use case.
It is DC fast charging where there is more of an issue. The Tesla network is well built out, and more reliable than the CCS based DC fast chargers.
There are two things happening to improve this. First, the non-Tesla DC fast charging network is rapidly expanding. Second, Tesla has said they will allow third party charging at their superchargers. There are adapters to go between Tesla and CCS (both directions), but definitely should be considered beta.
Bottom line, for home charging you’ll install whatever is convenient, either a Tesla or J1772 based charger, or just a plug and the charger that comes with car, and it’s not a big deal. Even for people charging at work or apartments, it is an easy problem to solve.
For trip charging it is more complicated at the moment, but will probably be considerably simpler in the next few years. Then you can charge at whatever place is cheapest, has the shortest wait, or is most convenient (just like getting gas!)
Did you take into account the cost of maintenance for an ICE car (more than for an EV)?
I solved the problem of high prices for a new EV by buying a used LEAF that just came off a 3 year lease. I benefited from original depreciation, and the tax incentive for a new car was baked into the used car price.
I promise you that no stone was left unturned, I love a spreadsheet.The big issue is the huge difference in price between a straight replacement for what I already have and an electric equivalent.
What I drive already gets 60mpg and 550 miles on a tank. Fuel savings amount to, at best, £50 a month with another £20 saved by a combination of cheaper servicing and road tax, but insurance is more expensive and a home wall box is needed plus a whole new set of winter wheels, snow chains and roof bars.
What I have can already move 4 adults with luggage, full roofbox and ski gear. And we do similar several times a year. To get something that can do the equivalent in terms of capacity is not cheap.
I could get a cheaper EV for normal running and hire something bigger for those holidays but of course that is extra hassle and a lot of extra cost.
Or I could fly instead…ditto.
This is one of the biggest things that non-EV drivers don’t get. I plugged in last night on a 15 amp regular circuit in the driveway. Took me 30 seconds tops. Today, I will have a full charge when I head out to some appointments. Will plug in when I get back. 30 seconds tops.
I rarely use public chargers.
Of course, there are some who do not have easy access to electricity where they park at home. But for those who do, many simply assume they have to operate an EV like a gasoline car; Go charge up at a “station” every time they are running low.
Wow. That’s impressive.
From reading articles about EV’s, and looking at the comments, I have learned that many folks do not think Electric Vehicles will be at all suitable for anyone until:
- They have at least 1000 miles range, if not more.
- Will lose minimal range at temperatures of -40
- Can be fully recharged in less than 5 minutes
- Can tow a 10,000 pound load with minimal loss of range
- Should be able to carry 10 bales of hay and 6 people comfortably
- Can be used as a contractor work vehicle
- Can be used to commute daily, and park in small downtown parkades
- Inexpensive, ideally costs less than $25,000 new
- Charging stations on every corner
- Made of materials that do not require mining or extraction of any kind
And even then, I’m told that the entire electrical grid will collapse anyway, so don’t bother.
I have literally seen people want these things. It’s amazing how many people commute 500+ miles to work every day in sub zero temperatures while hauling a horse trailer over the mountains.
It is, and though I don’t need that everyday we certainly call upon those features often enough that any current EV model that comes close would be very expensive.
When considering like-for-like in terms of functionality I just can’t make the sums add up yet. I suspect the next cycle for me, in five years time, will be different in terms of choice, functionality and ease of use. Our use-case will be different as well with the kids away at university and not travelling on holiday with us either.
EV’s are definitely the future but it is just financially and functionally not viable for us quite yet.
Probably true for quite a few folks. It won’t happen overnight; It’ll be a slow evolution.
I didn’t see anyone in the comments saying anything remotely like this. Your list is also a wild exaggeration, intentional I’m sure for effect.
I am a big fan of EVs. I think they generally represent a superior transportation option over gas vehicles, even without climate change in the picture. Just from an engineering standpoint they make a lot more sense than the Rube Goldberg hardware we need to make ICE cars work. But that doesn’t mean we have to be cheerleaders and ignore their weak points.
I live in a very large, very cold province where the distance between major population centers can be greater than the distance across an entire state. It is totally appropriate to consider range, cold temperature performance and charging infeastructure before buyingban electric car here. Also, 91% of our electricity comes from fossil fuels, negating some of the environmental benefits.
So having done that anlysis, I would quite happily buy an electric car so long as it has at least 300 miles of warm weather range and a heat pump for the cabin. Also AWD, as we get lots of snow here and our roads are poorly maintained in the winter.
I’d like an EV Ford Bronco with a 300 mile range. An F-150 Lightning is nice, but a little too large for us.
Holy smokes! What do you drive?!
We swapped out a 7 seat 18 mpg Acadia once the critters flew the coop…replaced it with a 35-40 mpg Mini Cooper S…I seriously considered an electric vehicle, but didn’t want to assume a $30,000 loan on top of paying for the kids to go to post-secondary education.
The Mini Cooper also keeps the miles off our 2500HD Diesel…which is another personal use case I don’t see getting solved any time soon: We camp. We pull a trailer. I don’t see us stopping every 80-100 miles to supercharge on a 1200 mile camping trip. The announced trucks have more than enough power, they won’t have the range hauling.
Looks like he is in Britain, so Imperial Gallons. Still, that translates to 50mpg in the US.
You didn’t see them because as I said “From reading articles about Ev’s and looking at the comments.” I did not say that they were posted here, because folks here are not idjits. Comments on other news sites? Full of idjits.
And no, not exaggerated. In fact, I have seen every single one of these. I did not include the others I have seen, such as:
- Lithium is a dangerous chemical
- EV’s all explode and catch on fire All The Time
- Batteries only last 4-5 years. I know this for a fact
- LIthium is mined in huge pits by children (accompanied by photo of open pit copper mine)
Etc.
Oh, I’ve got a solution; I’ll just ask Fredrick. My friend who stocked up on LaserDiscs, invested heavily in a Betamax machine and tapes, and even bought dozens of HD DVDs before they lost out to Blu-Ray discs.
If he says “Oh, I’m buying a car that’ll only charge with a CCS based charger.”, then I’m buying a Tesla or any car that’ll use non-CCS chargers, because I’ll be certain that everyone will be saying "CSwhat?" in a few months.
My hubby has a Tesla Model 3, dual motor, extended range. We charge it every night using our level 2 charger (not a Tesla charger, just a J1772 with the Tesla-supplied adapter). He works about 25 km away, so on a normal day, range is never a problem. Heat works fine.
I’ve used the Tesla for trips to see my sister in the Ottawa region. The location is about 258 km away. I can’t really charge the car at my sister’s house (her outdoor 120 V outlet can barely handle 8 amps continuous – it would take 4 days to charge the car). So in practice I stop at a Tesla supercharger about 2/3 of the way to her house (Casselman, ON, on highway 417), and stop at the same location for the return trip. Each stop is about 30 minutes, enough time for a nap or a burger. No waiting for charging spots – so far.
I did one such round trip over New Year’s. The outside temp was -15°C. I measured that the range was about 33% less than a warm summer day (27°C) for the same trip in the same car at the same speeds (but with winter tires). This is not based the car’s range estimate (which is always waaay too optimistic), my spreadsheet is based on % level of charge vs actual distance traveled, at various points along the way. It assumes that the % of charge is accurate and pretty linear at constant speeds.
The supercharger stations are in convenient locations along major highways. Tesla makes a costly adapter to charge a Tesla at a Chademo-equipped level 3 charger, I would like to have one just in case we’re stuck, but it’s been out of stock for about a year.
Last year, when the border between Québec and Ontario was closed because of the pandemic, I had to use Autoroute 50 in Québec to get there, instead of the usual highway 417 in Ontario. That time, I didn’t use the Tesla because there is no Tesla supercharger along that route. Instead I just used my Chevrolet Volt and burned some gasoline when the battery ran out. In a bind, it would have been feasible to charge the Tesla at a public level 2 charger (there are many of those) but it would have taken about 5 hours for each stop.
Go back to the “Model 3 waiting” thread, or whatever it was called, and other EV threads from a few years ago here. Or don’t, they’re just hundreds of comments going in circles
“EVs must do all the things or they are crap!”
“Normal cars can’t do all the things, you’re being silly.”
“All. The. Things. Also, not run on baby seal juice.”
“What? EVs do not run on baby seal juice.”
“EVs are worthless because they won’t solve all societal problems.”
Anyway, the EV doubters around here seem to have settled down (and the worst stopped participating in EV threads). Perfectly reasonable to have a use case that current EVs can’t meet. I mean, you wouldn’t buy a RAV4 to tow a 15,000 pound horse trailer, don’t buy a Model Y to do it either.
I can back you up on this. I don’t remember the EV thread title, but maybe 6 months ago a thread had some posters with less than rational arguments against EVs. I’ve also heard it personally, especially from my dad, a retired auto engineer. He lives in Michigan, which has made it nearly impossible to sell Teslas, and the auto journalism there is blatantly biased against EVs. Some people have gut-level anxiety about EVs, and the facts don’t matter. In Dad’s case, I think he just needed time, and lots of driving reports from me, to get over his fears.
I’ve heard that the autoworkers union is apprehensive about EVs because building them requires fewer and different specialized skills. So perhaps lower employment overall?
My brother has been driving Teslas of various sorts since 2015 or so. One time (one) coming back from California on a Monday of a 3-day weekend the only feasible Supercharger was in Quartzite, AZ. He had to wait for almost an hour before he could plug in, then charge for a half hour for enough to get to Phoenix-metro and home.
More locations have been added since then and the site in Quartzite has been expanded so that has not happened since.