# Experiment at Johns Hopkins \[allegedly\] sees transmutation of metals from electrical discharge **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 4, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002 "2023-06-04T23:13:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/1 "2023-06-04T23:13:10Z")
This is from a request for (free) support from a machining group I belong to. The OP (wave44) wants to duplicate some experiments but lacks funds, so… But it is the nature of the experiments I find interesting. The researchers claim to have found several elements on their electrode that had no way of being there unless they were produced during the experiment. Here is the thread > **[looking for someone that can do some lathe work for an experiment that I plan...](https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/looking-for-someone-that-can-do-some-lathe-work-for-an-experiment-that-i-plan-to-build.413565/)** > > I am looking for someone that can do some free (i.e. no charge) machining on a lathe for an experiment that I plan to set up. I have 3" diameter stainless steel tubes (thin wall) less than 1 foot long and also 1/4" tubing and vacuum flange fittings... This is the report on the experiment. I would love to see some comments from Chronos and others on this experiment. > **[SAFIRE-Project-Report.pdf](https://www.safireproject.com/science/ewExternalFiles/SAFIRE-Project-Report.pdf)** > > 41.33 MB ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/2 "2023-06-04T23:27:18Z")
I’m not seeing anything that looks like a scientific study in there. What experiment? Were results actually published? Peer reviewed? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/3 "2023-06-05T00:18:34Z")
I mean, transmutation is possible, so maybe? But you’d have an awfully hard time getting anything with a high enough energy from just electrodes, and there are a LOT of ways to end up with contamination. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/4 "2023-06-05T01:52:27Z")
Just standing back and looking for a moment, this appears to be an attempt to create a philosopher’s stone using free services. Kind of remarkable, right? ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/5 "2023-06-05T05:40:45Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I’m not seeing anything that looks like a scientific study in there. What experiment? Were results actually published? Peer reviewed? The Safire project report pdf ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/6 "2023-06-05T12:54:17Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > The Safire project report pdf That looks like a presentation from someone who wants to sell me a timeshare in cold fusion technology. I mean, there might be genuine careful research behind this, but I’d like to see the scientific papers rather than a promo with glossy photoshopped images including a page-sized photo of an elephant to support the contention that there is an elephant in the room. And anyway - that elephant is not in a room, it’s in the bush. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/7 "2023-06-05T13:26:03Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > > I’m not seeing anything that looks like a scientific study in there. What experiment? Were results actually published? Peer reviewed? > > The Safire project report pdf What Riemann said. That looks more like a brochure than a study. Which by itself isn’t fatal, except it also doesn’t seem to link to or cite any studies. It just makes assertions. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/8 "2023-06-05T14:31:09Z")
+1 I poked around a little and couldn’t find any papers on this (using keywords and authors), not even on arXiv, which is moderated, but not peer-reviewed, so it tends to have some pretty outré papers. Also, Googling “the Electric Universe” does not return hits inspiring confidence. The International Science Foundation seems to be a pretty bare website, with no real information on who is behind it. There is no “University of John Hopkins” (there are two errors in this) Finally, while plasma physics has some really cool unexplored areas, anyone with ultra-high-vacuum experience knows that plasma in that environment can easily knock atoms and molecules off surfaces, leading to deposition of contaminants in undesirable places. I see nothing in the pdf to indicate that special attention to materials and contaminants has been made. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/9 "2023-06-06T14:13:46Z")
As an alum of JHU (8 years spent there) I am required to barge into the thread and yell **“It’s JOHNS Hopkins!”** ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/10 "2023-06-06T15:21:16Z")
> [@peccavi](#): > > Also, Googling “the Electric Universe” does not return hits inspiring confidence. Wasn’t there a long running thread / discussion here many years back on the “electric sun”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/11 "2023-06-06T15:23:24Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > As an alum of JHU (8 years spent there) I am required to barge into the thread and yell **“It’s JOHNS Hopkins!”** Right. That Hopkins belongs to John. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/12 "2023-06-06T15:25:48Z")
Not to be confused with [Jon Hopkins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Hopkins), who doesn’t have a university but if he did it would be very chill. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/13 "2023-06-06T16:55:30Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > That looks like a presentation from someone who wants to sell me a timeshare in cold fusion technology. I got the same vibes when I started reading the “report.” So they haven’t published their findings in a peer-reviewed journal? Red flag. At least one person is calling this [Crank Pseudoscience](https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/electric-universe-is-crank-pseudoscience/). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/14 "2023-06-07T01:55:30Z")
The Safire Project has now been taken under wing by [Aureon Energy, Ltd.](https://aureon.ca/) Seems a little sketchy that the company could produce a glossy website and a number of videos but can’t afford to hire a machine shop or welders to work with stainless steel tubing. It looks like their [Patreon campaign in](https://www.patreon.com/posts/donald-scott-and-30607418?l=it) 2020 was unsuccessful. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/15 "2023-06-07T02:08:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Not to be confused with [Jon Hopkins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Hopkins), who doesn’t have a university but if he did it would be very chill. [I smoked pot with Johnny Hopkins](https://youtube.com/watch?v=bGH2d1jBJu8). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/16 "2023-06-07T06:12:43Z")
I feel like we’ve seen this topic before. Didn’t we have someone here on the SDMB claiming to have transmuted carbon to iron by making sparks using pencil leads? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/17 "2023-06-07T09:44:10Z")
[The SAFIRE Project Is Not Real Science](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmVdPgkudC8) (YT opinion video by debunker Dave Farina). ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/18 "2023-06-07T13:09:21Z")
So for the avoidance of doubt, a summary of that excellent video: This is the latest incarnation of “electric universe” pseudoscience (dating back to Velikovsky), in which the stars are giant anodes powered an invisible stream of electricity from the galactic core. It is all utter nonsense contradicted by mountains of astrophysical evidence. It is being pushed by a combination of crackpot pseudoscientists (none of whom have qualifications in physics) and conmen. They have zero published research, peer-reviewed or otherwise. Also, @Aspenglow, regarding the correction to the thread title: I’m not aware of any evidence that Johns Hopkins is involved in any way or that any experiment ever took place there. So perhaps leaving it as “University of John Hopkins” as vaguely mentioned in a caption in their promo or inserting the word “allegedly” in the thread title might have been more apt. > **[Electric Universe](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Electric_Universe)** > > Electric Universe (EU) is an umbrella term that covers various pseudo-scientific cosmological ideas built around the claim that the formation and existence of various features of the Universe can be better explained by electricity and magnetism than... > ## SAFIRE Project > > The International Science Foundation (a front group of EU supporters who falsely claim to neither support nor oppose the Electric Universe hypothesis) says that they provided $2,200,000 USD to fund a laboratory experiment to test the EU claims regarding the nature of the Sun. There is no independent analysis of their work and no publications about SAFIRE found on Google Scholar. The SAFIRE Project is housed in Mississauga, and is documented in videos from the EU2016 conference. They say that their intent is to compare the results of this experiment to the results of NASA’s Solar Probe Plus mission, and thereby demonstrate whether the EU solar model has any grounding in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/19 "2023-06-07T13:28:09Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So perhaps leaving it as “University of John Hopkins” as vaguely mentioned in a caption in their promo or inserting the word “allegedly” in the thread title might have been more apt. Good call. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/experiment-at-johns-hopkins-allegedly-sees-transmutation-of-metals-from-electrical-discharge/985002/20 "2023-06-07T16:14:23Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > The Safire Project has now been taken under wing by [Aureon Energy, Ltd.](https://aureon.ca/) Seems a little sketchy that the company could produce a glossy website and a number of videos but can’t afford to hire a machine shop or welders to work with stainless steel tubing. To be clear, it was the OP of the thread I referenced that could not afford the machining. He hoped to duplicate the Safire experiments.