# Explain a cryptic crossword clue **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** board-card-word-game\ **Created:** [June 18, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568 "2021-06-18T19:45:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/41 "2021-06-29T22:47:57Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Do people in the US really go around calling their friends “broseph” just because it rhymes with “Joseph”? We don’t like to talk about those people, with their popped collars and backwards caps. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/42 "2021-06-29T23:12:13Z")
This seems like a good place to ask- A few years back, there was a commercial for a game in the Grand Theft Auto series that was narrated by a cockney who used some rhyming slang. I know from threads on this board that “Fancy a butcher?” means “Want a look?” Butcher’s hook rhymes with look. I never did find out what “A little bit of how’s your father” meant. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/43 "2021-06-29T23:52:06Z")
On another vein, sometimes there are clues in the British cryptics that don’t quite follow the standard rules. For example, from the London Times: Clue: One can take far too much interest in his business (4,5) Answer: LOAN SHARK It seems to me there is no separate wordplay involved at all, it is simply a pun. It would be at home in a sophisticated non-cryptic puzzle, like in the New York Times. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/44 "2021-06-30T02:37:36Z")
I saw a description once of a particular type of cryptic clue called “&lit.”, meaning (I think) that the clue works as both wordplay and a literal description at the same time. One that I saw recently: A wet fluid, right? (5) WATER I can see the literal interpretation of LOAN SHARK. Does the same clue have a wordplay interpretation? If there is, I don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/45 "2021-06-30T03:29:56Z")
Exactly. As far as I see, the entire clue is a literal, though punny, definition. There is no wordplay. I’ve seen this only on British crosswords. American cryptics never do this. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/46 "2021-06-30T04:00:28Z")
See this is why I suck at these. For the fluid, I don’t get what wordplay there is. So this is a non two halves clue or what? All I see is a literal answer and I just don’t get how we know that’s the right one given the clue, or why it particularly fits that clue. I’m obviously missing something, and almost every time I see clue and answer pairs I can’t figure out the logic. I just feel like a total moron when I try a cryptic, even with the answer key: ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/47 "2021-06-30T04:06:21Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I saw a description once of a particular type of cryptic clue called “&lit.”, meaning (I think) that the clue works as both wordplay and a literal description at the same time. One that I saw recently: > > A wet fluid, right? (5) > > WATER > [@suranyi](#): > > As far as I see, the entire clue is a literal, though punny, definition. There is no wordplay. The entire clue works as both a definition and a wordplay clue (“A wet” fluid = WATE; right = R). The convention in at least some American cryptics is to use an exclamation point for clues like these. (“A wet fluid, right!”) ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/48 "2021-06-30T04:06:26Z")
A WET is fluid. As in anagram it. WATE right = R. So we have WATE + R And rather than delete my simulpost, I’ll confirm what Thudlow Boink said that American style cryptics typically use exclamation points to mark an &lit clue. Oh, and just like regular crosswords, a question mark generally implies a pun in the solution. Though it typically will also indicate that the definition is the second part of the clue. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/49 "2021-06-30T04:49:24Z")
This is a good example of &lit. However, my case (LOAN SHARK) is not &lit, I think. &lit means the same wording is both literal and wordplay. In my example, there is no wordplay at all. So I’m not sure what kind of clue it is. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/50 "2021-06-30T09:16:52Z")
There’s no wordplay, it’s just an oblique/cryptic definition. They’re fairly rare - you’ll often solve crosswords that don’t have any - but they do come up. As this and the &lit types show, “Definition plus wordplay” is a guideline rather than a rule. The other non-wordplay type of clue is the double (or triple, or quadruple) definition e.g.: Quits flat (4) would be EVEN. More examples here: [Cryptic crosswords for beginners: Double definitions | Crosswords | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/crossword-blog/2011/nov/17/cryptic-crosswords-for-beginners-double-definitions) including the magnificent Offer sensitive carer money (6) for which the solution is in the link. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/51 "2021-06-30T12:24:02Z")
I would maintain that the requirement for double clueing is a rule, just one that’s sometimes broken. One inherent feature of crosswords, of either type, is that they’re completely confirmable. In American crosswords, this confirmability comes from every square being checked (that is, part of both an across and a down answer). In cryptics, it comes from every clue containing two clues. And yes, there are also childrens’ crosswords, which consist mostly of empty space, and have long words that only cross at a few letters each. They’re also vastly inferior as puzzles, and are suited only as cereal-box decoration or filler-practice for vocabulary words. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/52 "2021-06-30T13:38:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In cryptics, it comes from every clue containing two clues. Where this falls down is that in cryptics, every clue does not contain two clues. “Cryptic defintion” clues have a long history and are well accepted as part of the setters bag of tricks. There is no unfairness, rule-breaking, skullduggery or bad form involved in using them. > **[Cryptic crosswords for beginners: cryptic definitions](https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/crossword-blog/2021/mar/15/cryptic-crosswords-for-beginners-cryptic-definitions)** > > Our series for those tempted or daunted by cryptics discusses those times when setters say what they mean, even if they don’t mean what they say > “How on earth do these things work?” is a reasonable question when faced with a cryptic clue. The answer goes “Well, half of it is a definition of the answer, and the other half is a little recipe for the letters in the answer,” because that’s how the things are always structured. > Except, of course, when they’re not. > Since the earliest days, setters have also deployed another trick: describing the answer in a way that is very easy to misread. The cryptic definition is pretty much a joke, and many of the most-quoted clues work in this way. Here are a couple, which have been attributed to [Adrian Bell, the first Times setter](https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/2005/feb/04/the-x-philes). > This cylinder is jammed (5,4) > Die of cold (3,4) Confirmability in these instances comes from their being no other answer that would meet such an allusive definition. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/53 "2021-06-30T14:25:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I would maintain that the requirement for double clueing is a rule, just one that’s sometimes broken. > [@Stanislaus](#): > > Where this falls down is that in cryptics, every clue does not contain two clues. “Cryptic defintion” clues have a long history and are well accepted as part of the setters bag of tricks. There is no unfairness, rule-breaking, skullduggery or bad form involved in using them. I think this is a difference between cryptics published in the US (where they _are_ considered rule-breaking) and in the UK. To me, they sure seem bad form and unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/54 "2021-06-30T16:07:23Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Offer sensitive carer money (6) > > for which the solution is in the link. The link demanded I register before seeing the page. However, I did figure out the clue, and it’s pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/55 "2021-06-30T16:30:48Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > For those who don’t usually do cryptics, the clues are usually les umm cryptic. One of my favorites- Desert Animal Arrived And Left (5) Yep, this is why I prefer non cryptics where I just have to know a few obscure words and pro golfers. (and they barely cross! So you can’t use the acrosses to help figure out the downs! If you don’t know/can’t find the answer, you just don’t know! They’re demoralizing.) > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > A WET is fluid. As in anagram it. WATE > right = R. Is “wate” a common cryptic crossword word? Am I supposed to know “wate”? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/56 "2021-06-30T16:38:07Z")
Ah, “cryptic definition”. That’s a type of clue I’d never heard of before. As others have said, it doesn’t seem to appear in American cryptics which is where I learned to solve them. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/57 "2021-06-30T16:47:25Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > Is “wate” a common cryptic crossword word? Am I supposed to know “wate”? The clue is simple telling you that the letters in A WET are “fluid”, thus not in order. Like a rebus you have to add the parts to get a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/58 "2021-06-30T17:03:46Z")
Yeah, apparently you need to turn off your ‘crossword brain’ and turn on your ‘cryptic brain’ - there doesn’t seem to be much (if any) overlap behind the clue styles. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/59 "2021-06-30T17:11:45Z")
I got that one with the explanation after stating it for a minute, realizing “fluid” is the clue that it’s an anagram, but how is “quite flat” EVEN? Or is that an example of just a straight definition and nothing else? (Which I don’t expect in a cryptic.) I’m so confused. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568/60 "2021-06-30T17:31:33Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > The other non-wordplay type of clue is the double (or triple, or quadruple) definition e.g.: > > Quits flat (4) > [@pulykamell](#): > > but how is “quite flat” EVEN? Not “quit **e** flat”—“quit **s** flat.” I assume “quits” as in “Let’s call it quits” means “even”; and “flat” also means “even.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-a-cryptic-crossword-clue/944568.md?page=4)