# Explain Dungeons&Dragons to me? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 7, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041 "2012-09-07T22:44:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/41 "2012-09-11T05:33:48Z")
GMing over IRC, vent or Skype is kind of mid-way between a PBP and a full IRL social game. It might be a good way for you to wet your beak as it were - limit the game to three or four players, run a simple prebuilt scenario and see how you go with it when they try to BREAK YOUR SPIRIT AND YOUR GAME… hehe. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/42 "2012-09-11T16:49:18Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Now I’m wondering if I could convince a GM to give a +1 or +2 to the reflex save bonus if the tactic was planned by the party in game ahead of time (a “you were prepared” modifier). I take it you guys don’t see this tactic as “gaming” the system? I can’t for the life of me imagine people agreeing “for real” to have a fireball thrown on their location. Imagine if we told our tankers “we’re gonna drive through this artillery barrage”. They’ll probably reply “How about you lay down the barrage first, and _then_ we’ll drive through when the smoke clears.”. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/43 "2012-09-11T17:10:11Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I take it you guys don’t see this tactic as “gaming” the system? > > I can’t for the life of me imagine people agreeing “for real” to have a fireball thrown on their location. > > Imagine if we told our tankers “we’re gonna drive through this artillery barrage”. They’ll probably reply “How about you lay down the barrage first, and _then_ we’ll drive through when the smoke clears.”. Bear in mind that the mechanics are an abstraction of what’s “really” going on in-character. The monk and rogue abilities we’re talking about, in particular, are abstractions of the ability of the characters to move quickly and nimbly to get out of harm’s way. In-character, the tactic might, for example, be more like the rogue pulling a hit-and-run attack on an enemy, causing several foes to close in as they give chase; then he ducks behind a column, and the wizard releases the spell he’s been holding until he sees the rogue take cover. Sometimes you describe parts of the fight in such cinematic terms for flavor, but it can bog down a combat encounter, so players often use mechanical shorthand like “Drop the fireball on me–I’ve got Improved Evasion.” when the _character_ is actually suggesting a more nuanced, less suicidal action. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/44 "2012-09-11T17:20:14Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Bear in mind that the mechanics are an abstraction of what’s “really” going on in-character. The monk and rogue abilities we’re talking about, in particular, are abstractions of the ability of the characters to move quickly and nimbly to get out of harm’s way. In-character, the tactic might, for example, be more like the rogue pulling a hit-and-run attack on an enemy, causing several foes to close in as they give chase; then he ducks behind a column, and the wizard releases the spell he’s been holding until he sees the rogue take cover. Sometimes you describe parts of the fight in such cinematic terms for flavor, but it can bog down a combat encounter, so players often use mechanical shorthand like “Drop the fireball on me–I’ve got Improved Evasion.” when the _character_ is actually suggesting a more nuanced, less suicidal action. I know all that. But you’re still expecting the DM and other players to believe that these characters are so confident of their abilities that they think it’s ok if their Squad Leader throws a grenade into the middle of a knife fight, yelling “fire in the hole” (and everyone hits the dirt). It’s a bit of a stretch in a campaign that was intended to have a “serious” flavor, in my opinion. If we were in a lampoon campaign, then hey, sure. Lob away. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/45 "2012-09-11T17:33:02Z")
Let me illustrate with another example. A party I was DMing came upon [detected] a roadside ambush prior to it’s being sprung. The gnolls intended to have a rockfall take out (or soften up) the caravan guards (which the PC’s were doubling as). The players crunch the numbers, and tell me that they were going to walk straight into the ambush, with no concerns over the rocks. (“The most it can do is 3d6. I got 47 health. These gnolls need a 26 just to hit me, so I aint gonna take no hits in melee. Right. Off we go!”) To me, that was the same as saying that their characters were contemptuous of any danger, and consiously choosing to not take any kind of precautions in regards to the upcoming fight. Sounds like a good way to end up dead in real life, to me. Anywho, I told them that if their characters were not going to defend themselves from a hundred pound rock hitting them in the helmet, it was not going to be following the standard DM’s Guide rules for damage. It’s the same when someone says that they’re going to jump down this hundred foot cliff in full plate, because they got more that 10d6 hit points. How the hell does your paladin know how many hit points he has at full health? All he knows is when he feels hurt, and when he doesn’t. (“You know, I didn’t realise, until now, that I could take that ballista bolt in the chest and survive.”) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/46 "2012-09-11T17:36:24Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I take it you guys don’t see this tactic as “gaming” the system? > > I can’t for the life of me imagine people agreeing “for real” to have a fireball thrown on their location. I can’t imagine someone “for real” conjuring a ball of fire out of thin air and throwing it hundreds of feet to create an enormous explosion. It’s a fantasy game, and that means that there are a lot of tactics that aren’t remotely feasible in real life. For example, a front-line warrior with a low AC but a high number of hit points is a workable build in D&D. In real life, “I’m gonna let the other guy stab me a bunch of times,” is never a winning strategy. In this specific case, the characters are acting purely off of in-game knowledge. The evasion ability means the character has been specifically trained in dodging fireballs and similar area-effect spells and traps. And while a character doesn’t know “I have a +15 Ref save, and the spell’s DC is only 14. I can’t fail the save,” the character would know, “I am really fucking fast, and the mage’s spell is relatively slow. There’s no way he can hit me.” > [@](#): > > Imagine if we told our tankers “we’re gonna drive through this artillery barrage”. They’ll probably reply “How about you lay down the barrage first, and _then_ we’ll drive through when the smoke clears.”. We probably wouldn’t do that, because an artillery shell can really fuck up a tank. However, I don’t think anyone would blink at, “We’re gonna drive through this barrage of rifle fire,” because a rifle isn’t going to hurt a tank. If we ever develop tanks that are entirely immune to artillery fire, then yes, we probably would see just that tactic. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/47 "2012-09-11T17:48:23Z")
Well, I don’t like it much, but in the end, it’s all about havin’ fun with your buds. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/48 "2012-09-11T17:49:13Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I know all that. But you’re still expecting the DM and other players to believe that these characters are so confident of their abilities that they think it’s ok if their Squad Leader throws a grenade into the middle of a knife fight, yelling “fire in the hole” (and everyone hits the dirt). No, I’m expecting them to interpret the mechanics of the tactic in whatever way suits their concept of their characters. It could be anything from > [@](#): > > That crazy wizard starts lobbing fireballs any time the enemy bunches up, so I never get more than a couple of feet from cover. to > [@](#): > > We will execute pattern Lambda 3, exactly as we practiced with the simulacra. The ranger will alpha with an arrow to the rear guard, providing a diversion as I start my run. Two seconds into my run, the wizard will begin his cast. At three seconds, I will execute a single strike, then divert to cover behind the column, reaching full cover at five seconds. At six seconds, the cast will be complete, and the fireball will strike the target zone directly in front of my cover, catching the enemy as they attempt to flank. OK, that latter one is more of a superhero or SF RPG description, but the point applies. They may be supremely confident in their abilities, or just expect the grenade to be thrown regardless of their opinion, but the most likely interpretation is that in the combat represented by the abstraction, no one is actually pitching the grenade into the middle of the knife fight. They’re just doing something that _looks_ like that when represented on a grid where a human completely fills a five foot cube of space. If the player isn’t comfortable with the abstraction, they can describe it cinematically, in whatever way seems appropriate, and simply note which mechanics they’re using. Some game systems encourage (or even require) this more than others; D&D is very mechanics-heavy, so you generally get more of the rules jargon, especially as compared something like a FATE system game or _Feng Shui_. ---
**Author:** ![With\_Rye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@With\_Rye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/With_Rye)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/49 "2012-09-11T23:57:44Z")
> [@Chipacabra](#): > > You might want to check out actual examples of people playing. One of the famous ones lately was the Penny Arcade and PvP dudes playing. The podcasts are collected at [Wizards of the Coast](http://www.wizards.com/DnD/podcasts.aspx) Seconded. Those podcasts were my first glimpse into a real session. I can’t remember exactly, but in the middle of the game, a character suddenly paused and pointed out that the DM has been casually mentioning lightning strikes every time anyone said a certain name or word, all this time, and the group went :eek: and I was also like :eek: and it finally clicked for me how awesome DnD could be. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/50 "2012-09-12T00:04:20Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Let me illustrate with another example. > > A party I was DMing came upon [detected] a roadside ambush prior to it’s being sprung. The gnolls intended to have a rockfall take out (or soften up) the caravan guards (which the PC’s were doubling as). > > The players crunch the numbers, and tell me that they were going to walk straight into the ambush, with no concerns over the rocks. (“The most it can do is 3d6. I got 47 health. These gnolls need a 26 just to hit me, so I aint gonna take no hits in melee. Right. Off we go!”) > > To me, that was the same as saying that their characters were contemptuous of any danger, and consiously choosing to not take any kind of precautions in regards to the upcoming fight. Sounds like a good way to end up dead in real life, to me. > > Anywho, I told them that if their characters were not going to defend themselves from a hundred pound rock hitting them in the helmet, it was not going to be following the standard DM’s Guide rules for damage. So, if they’d not seen the ambush at all, it would have been less dangerous, then if they’d seen it and deliberately triggered it? If it surprised them completely, how would they they be able to take the precautions necessary for the trap to do regular damage? ---
**Author:** ![With\_Rye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@With\_Rye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/With_Rye)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/51 "2012-09-12T00:04:20Z")
There are videos too. Here’s the newest from this year’s PAX: [Twitch](http://www.twitch.tv/pax) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/52 "2012-09-12T00:06:14Z")
Real-world tanks don’t (generally) call in artillery strikes on their own position, but they _do_, in fact, routinely call for their allies to machine-gun them to keep squishies off. It’s referred to as “back-scratching”. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041/53 "2012-09-12T15:19:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, if they’d not seen the ambush at all, it would have been less dangerous, then if they’d seen it and deliberately triggered it? If it surprised them completely, how would they they be able to take the precautions necessary for the trap to do regular damage? _shrug_ I don’t want to fight about this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-dungeons-dragons-to-me/634041.md?page=2)