# Explain English geography to me **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 12, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668 "2022-01-12T23:14:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/121 "2022-01-17T18:30:22Z")
The creation of the county of South Yorkshire, out of the East, West and North Ridings, caused particular scorn and resentment - there never was a South Riding, and Winifred Holtby’s novel of that name is understood to refer to a fictitious part of Yorkshire. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/122 "2022-01-17T19:11:13Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I disagree about Los Angeles. For most people in SoCal, saying “Los Angeles” means the county or the greater metropolitan area. People will say “the City of Los Angeles” when they mean the city specifically. This is due to the big mess of neighborhoods of the city and independent suburbs that are interwoven throughout the county. This is true. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/123 "2022-01-17T19:20:47Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > The Map Men video made a passing reference to the 6 (…or what is 9? Haven’t gone back to confirm) English “regions”. What are those? > **[Regions of England](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England)** > > The regions of England, formerly known as the government office regions, are the highest tier of sub-national division in England. They were established in 1994 and follow the 1974–96 county borders. They are a continuation of the former 1940s standard regions which followed the 1889–1974 administrative county borders. Between 1994 and 2011, all nine regions had partly devolved functions; they no longer fulfil this role, continuing to be used for limited statistical purposes. > While the UK was... The regions also had significance to the European Union ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/124 "2022-01-17T19:58:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The regions also had significance to the European Union I don’t think they serve any administrative function, not since 2011. They were level-whatever sub-national statistical entities for EU data collection. After Brexit, don’t know if that is relevant any more. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/125 "2022-01-17T23:32:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > They don’t consider themselves Scots and English now. They do indeed consider themselves Irish. National identity can change a lot in only a few generations, even one generation. In terms of nationality Republicans and Unionists are all indeed Irish. I posted a cite proving that this is not actually true at all. Am I on ignore? And the British people who were born in and have always lived in England, Scotland or Wales, but are entitled to an Irish passport due to their parents or Grandparents, don’t consider themselves Irish either. Irish heritage, yeah, but they’d be laughed at here if they claimed they were actually Irish. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/126 "2022-01-17T23:40:41Z")
Your cite said that they were 26 times more likely to consider themselves Irish than Scots or English. And that 1% “English, Scottish, or Welsh” is probably mostly folks who moved there recently, not the descendants of the original colonists. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/127 "2022-01-17T23:46:37Z")
Well, yes, I wouldn’t expect many permanent residents in NI to consider themselves Scottish or English - why would they? But the largest number consider themselves British only, then the third largest is Irish only. It’s simply, plainly not true that “In terms of nationality Republicans and Unionists are all indeed Irish.” (Not Scots. Scots is a language, not a nationality or ethnicity. I’m not sure you know as much about this subject as you believe you do). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2022, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/128 "2022-01-18T08:15:04Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Not Scots. Scots is a language, not a nationality or ethnicity. No it’s both. But yes, if you spent even an hour listening to Northern Irish unionists talking about themselves and their concerns you would see that it is absurd to think that most of them see themselves as Irish. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2022, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/129 "2022-01-18T08:48:54Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > And the British people who were born in and have always lived in England, Scotland or Wales, but are entitled to an Irish passport due to their parents or Grandparents, don’t consider themselves Irish either. Irish heritage, yeah, but they’d be laughed at here if they claimed they were actually Irish. Since Brexit, my wife has been frantically rifling through old documents in our attic trying to find Irish birth certificates for various ancestors, as her surname starts with an O’. A failed attempt, it turns out (the ancestry isn’t as recent as her grandmother made out) which sadly means no EU passport - but there’ll be hell to pay if anyone tries calling my wife anything other than Welsh and British! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/130 "2022-01-18T20:00:55Z")
Lots of UK citizens will tell you their nationality is Polish. That doesn’t make Poland a constituent part of the UK. It is factually accurate to state that “part of the island of Ireland is one of the parts of the UK.” It’s factually inaccurate to say it the way you phrased it. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/131 "2022-01-19T12:11:35Z")
How do the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands fit in here? On a census form, is there a place for a nationality of “Manx” or “Jerseyan”? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/132 "2022-01-19T12:55:06Z")
They are autonomous and run their own censuses. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/133 "2022-01-19T18:58:27Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#): > > How do the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands fit in here? On a census form, is there a place for a nationality of “Manx” or “Jerseyan”? They’re British Crown Dependencies. Their citizens are UK citizens, and they’re essentially governed by the UK government, although officially they’re not part of the UK. My anecdotal experience is that the Channel Islanders identify as British, but not English. In relation to the county discussion, the Channel Islands have two bailiwicks - Jersey and Guernsey, while the geopolitical designation of the Isle of Man is simply an isle. Sports-wise, they’re British for the Olympics, but represent their bailiwicks/isle for the Commonwealth Games. I think there’s some kind of lower level Island Games where Sark and Aldernay compete as separate entities. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/134 "2022-01-19T22:19:13Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > and they’re essentially governed by the UK government, Not for most domestic operations of government. There are pressures Whitehall and Westminster could bring to bear if they feel it necessary, but for most matters they have their own legislation. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/135 "2022-01-20T08:49:51Z")
I think that anyone who has read this thread will have grasped by now that the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Island, plus its dependencies is a bucket of worms - politically, administratively and geographically. No one so far as I can see has mentioned Gibraltar or The Falklands etc. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/136 "2022-01-20T08:59:16Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > My anecdotal experience is that the Channel Islanders identify as British, but not English. Well yes, obviously, as these islands aren’t in England. ---
**Author:** ![cytop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f17d59/32.png) [@cytop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cytop)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/137 "2022-01-23T07:11:31Z")
Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands, along with other assorted lumps of rock in the middle of various oceans, are [British Overseas Territories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories) and “… are the last remnants of the former British Empire and do not form part of the United Kingdom itself.” (From the Wikipedia link) ---
**Author:** ![cytop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f17d59/32.png) [@cytop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cytop)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/138 "2022-01-23T08:30:40Z")
Couldn’t ETA but I can’t see that ‘English geography’ is complicated… There is the island of Britain which is made up of the 3 constituent countries - England, Wales & Scotland. Referred to as ‘Britain’ or ‘Great Britain’. Add in Northern Ireland and voilà - The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Then there’s the [Crown dependencies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Dependencies) - the Channel Isles and the Isle of Man. Citizens of Crown Dependencies have full British citizenship but CRs are self governing and are not part of the UK but the UK is responsible for foreign affairs and defence (and probably a couple of other things) - this is where it gets complicated as each CR is different but they all have their own parliament/assembly however it’d take a book to cover things see the link for more details. The term ‘British Isles’ refers to Britain, Ireland (Island of), and all the smaller islands around the coast. This is just a convenient grouping and does not imply any political status Then there’s the British Overseas Territories - see above. ---
**Author:** ![cytop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f17d59/32.png) [@cytop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cytop)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/139 "2022-01-23T08:49:31Z")
(No idea why I typed ‘CR’ instead of ‘CD’ above. Too late to edit) ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668/140 "2022-01-23T11:16:42Z")
There’s other island groups to add colour as well, such as Isles of Scilly, the Shetlands, Orkneys, and so on, which all have their own ways of doing things that have grown historically. The Isles of Scilly, for instance, are considered part of England, and for some considerations is part of Cornwall (the closest mainland county), but has its own county council as well. The Isle of Wight is its own county to itself, but is pretty big as English islands go. As far as local authorities go, a lot of cities these days tend to go the City Council route and separate themselves off from counties. Plymouth, for instance, is a city in Devon, but the Devon County Council doesn’t have a lot to do with us, with Plymouth City Council covering us. The suburbs of the city sprawl over the county border into Cornwall though, and although some living in Saltash may consider themselves part of Plymouth (I’m sure many don’t, mind), their bins are picked up by Cornwall County Council. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-english-geography-to-me/957668.md?page=8)