# Explain Firefly **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421 "2004-07-16T14:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/281 "2004-08-19T19:56:21Z")
I too would love to see Fox eat some serious crow in the wake of Firefly’s box office success, and I’m crossing my fingers that it happens that way. I share some of the same concerns about people who haven’t seen the show and have preconceived notions mainly of what Joss Whedon produces. A friend of mine who wasn’t a big Buffy or Angel fan watched about six episodes of Firefly and came away with the opinion that it was nothing more than a cult show, riding the coattails if you will of the previously mentioned shows to establish a fan base and gain popularity. And while I’m not exactly sure what my friend completely meant by “culty,” I can certainly see Serenity being dismissed as nothing more than a fan phenonmenon. I sort of hope Serenity will turn out like the X-Files movie, where I felt there was enough backstory given so that the non-X-Files viewer could get the idea of what was happening with the aliens and the Syndicate and the relationship between Mulder and Scully, but where I as a regular viewer was able to get more out of watching it. I hope people aren’t scared away in thinking that they won’t get Serenity without the Firefly series, because I think Whedon’s a smart enough writer to be able to balance satisfying the demands of fans and inviting a whole new audience to the narrative. I think Serenity will do decently at the box office with a good opening week. I’m eager to see all the press stuff pre-release, to get a sense of how it’s being packaged. I also don’t think I’ll be bored even if there is extensive backstory with which I’m already familiar. Just to see those characters again is satisfaction enough. ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/282 "2004-08-19T19:57:43Z")
Dammit. Make that “Serenity’s box office success.” I suppose I deserve that for trying to post and check e-mail at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/283 "2004-08-19T20:20:20Z")
Well, **Judith,** the problem there is that Fox had some formulaic issues with _Firefly_ which were correct at the time, correct now, and will be correct next spring, regardless of how much money the movie makes. It doesn’t fit into their mold of what a successful TV series looks like, and they are not in the business of flying directly in the face of everything they’ve seen make money in the past (except, apparently, the “Trust Joss Whedon and everything he says” part…). They didn’t understand what he was making, and I’m not sure they do now or ever will. I just hope that, if this turns out not well, it doesn’t poison his career… there isn’t a whole lot of middle ground available to him here. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/284 "2004-08-19T20:47:08Z")
I found a copy of the Serenity trailer that was shown at some convention a while back online. Sigh. I’ll be there opening day. I think there’s hope for the franchise. Look at Star Trek - that franchise through movies only for how long between the original series and the Next Generation? Come to think of it, didn’t someone say here that Whedon has said he thinks Firefly belongs on the movie screen instead of TV from here on out? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/285 "2004-08-19T20:58:36Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > didn’t someone say here that Whedon has said he thinks Firefly belongs on the movie screen instead of TV from here on out? Not only that, IIRC someone also said that Whedon is planning a trilogy. Star Trek went four movies before TNG premiered. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/286 "2004-08-19T22:02:12Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I found a copy of the Serenity trailer that was shown at some convention a while back online. The Easter Egg above? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/287 "2004-08-19T22:31:25Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > The Easter Egg above? Oh, was that what that was referring to? I never bothered to look. I found the link elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/288 "2004-08-19T23:06:01Z")
Not only have you people infected me (hooray for netflix), I’ve gone on to infect at least two others. I’m working on a third. As to the movie, remember that the first Star Trek movie was essentially an expansion of a single episode. I’m hoping that the Firefly movie won’t be anywhere near that bad, but if it is, I’ll still keep up my hope for future movies. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/289 "2004-08-20T00:45:24Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > They didn’t understand what he was making, What was he making besides an interesting TV program? ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/290 "2004-08-20T01:02:12Z")
The way I understand the TV executive dummy language, **carnivorous plant** , is they didn’t understand how to market _Firefly_. They didn’t know which peg to hang it on. Look at, for example, _The Princess Bride_. The director, Rob Reiner, lamented the fact that it was treated badly by the Hollywood marketing engine because they knew not how to sell it: comedy, adventure, romance, satire? The film has nevertheless made a huge runaway hit of itself on video/DVD sales. In the DVD commentary he compared the shabby marketing to that for _The Wizard of Oz,_ now an amazing cult favorite and re-broadcast yearly, now trumpeted by MGM as a classic for all time—but at its release, it was shuffled into and out of the cinemas without fanfare. Hindsight is 20/20, and all that. _Firefly_ is a similar breed. As I said before (having seen only the pilot at the time, I haven’t changed my mind): it isn’t a comedy, but it is funny. It isn’t an action piece, but it has action in it. It isn’t a romance, but it has romantic things in it. It isn’t a western, but it has horses. It isn’t a science-fiction show, but it’s set in the future. It isn’t a horror show, but it has some amazingly dark and awful things in it. You’re a network executive and you have to sell this show, both to advertisers and the public, in a 15-second bumper. How would you do it? I guess the executives gave up, because they obviously didn’t sell it very well at the time. They tremendously underestimated the public’s grasp of a show with all the above elements, plus complex characters, serial plot elements, and as a result, _Firefly_ was permitted to languish. By the way, if I had to sell _Firefly_ in 15 seconds, I’d cop out and run an ad like “See the show everybody is talking about!” Or I’d run mysterious ads that make the viewer tune in to see it for himself. Just because FOX was wrong for giving _Firefly_ the shaft (marketing-wise) doesn’t mean that selling it would have been a breeze. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/291 "2004-08-20T01:55:56Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > It isn’t a science-fiction show, but it’s set in the future. Sure it’s Science Fiction. In case you didn’t notice, they have space ships. I can see how a network would think it needed robots or Klingons or ray guns. I described above how they might not like some aspects of the episodes they didn’t air. Let’s hope for a good movie and another series. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/292 "2004-08-20T03:51:01Z")
> [@Teelo](#): > > She _did_ seem more interested in the workings of the engine rather than the sex Maybe engineering isn’t the only thing this guy just isn’t very good at. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/293 "2004-08-20T03:54:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Sure it’s Science Fiction. In case you didn’t notice, they have space ships. > > I can see how a network would think it needed robots or Klingons or ray guns. I described above how they might not like some aspects of the episodes they didn’t air. Better to say, it’s not sci-fi, but it’s set in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/294 "2004-08-20T04:26:29Z")
> [@tanstaafl](#): > > About the rifle needing air to fire… On the DVD commentary track Whedon admits that they were wrong there. According to him, they asked someone and were told that a gun would need air to fire and it was only after the episode was finished that they discovered they were wrong. Actually, you could make a case that Vera is prone to jamming from rapid-firing in vacuum (parts of the feed mechanism start to vacuum-weld from heating). OK, it’s an excuse after the fact, but it works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/295 "2004-08-20T13:45:57Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What was he making besides an interesting TV program? Have you _seen_ Fox’s lineup? Jack and Bobby 7th Heaven Everwood Gilmore Girls One Tree Hill Smallville Blue Collar Comedy Drew Carey’s Green Screen The Mountain Studio 7 What I Like About You Commando Nanny Steve Harvey’s Big Time Charmed Shacking Up Like I said, way back when up at the top of the thread: No teenagers. Not enough romance (as in, actual romancing, except for, you know, girl-on-girl space hooker action), way not enough romantic _conflict_ (guys beating on each other because they both want the girl), no barf comedy, no Stupid Human Tricks… I think they probably would have been more supportive if they had aliens in the show, because it would have given them something to do with all those drums of foamed latex they’ve got left over from Angel. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/296 "2004-08-20T13:47:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Better to say, it’s not sci-fi, but it’s set in the future. Wash: Mind reading? It’s like something from science fiction. Zoe: We live on a spaceship, dear. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/297 "2004-08-20T13:47:58Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I described above how they might not like some aspects of the episodes they didn’t air. > . Yes, and you keep bringing it up, even though it doesn’t seem to catch with anybody. If either of those things had been a problem, I’m sure someone would have a quote from Whedon illustrating that. -Joe, never seen Buffy or Angel, doesn’t care to ---
**Author:** ![threeorange](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@threeorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threeorange)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/298 "2004-08-20T13:49:19Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Have you _seen_ Fox’s lineup? > > Jack and Bobby > 7th Heaven > Everwood > Gilmore Girls > One Tree Hill > Smallville > Blue Collar Comedy > Drew Carey’s Green Screen > The Mountain > Studio 7 > What I Like About You > Commando Nanny > Steve Harvey’s Big Time > Charmed > Shacking Up > > Like I said, way back when up at the top of the thread: No teenagers. Not enough romance (as in, actual romancing, except for, you know, girl-on-girl space hooker action), way not enough romantic _conflict_ (guys beating on each other because they both want the girl), no barf comedy, no Stupid Human Tricks… I think they probably would have been more supportive if they had aliens in the show, because it would have given them something to do with all those drums of foamed latex they’ve got left over from Angel. Actually, the titles I recognize on this list are all WB, not Fox. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/299 "2004-08-20T14:40:56Z")
WB, Fox, whatever. :rolleyes: NONE of them would take Joss up on this. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/300 "2004-08-20T15:02:12Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Yes, and you keep bringing it up, Thanks for pointing that out. I must have missed a memo about what observations are allowed. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421.md?page=16)