# Explain Firefly **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421 "2004-07-16T14:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/61 "2004-07-17T21:18:28Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > It’s exciting, but it isn’t an action show. I came to a similar conclusion when watchong an episode where Mal and a crazy con-woman steal an antique. As they punched out guards and made their escape, my attention wandered away, because I’ve seen fighting and running about a zillion times. When they started _talking_ again, I paid more attention. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/62 "2004-07-17T22:02:23Z")
> [@kitarak](#): > > Actually, he can pilot the ship. I can’t remember the episode, but there’s a scene where Zoey says something along the lines of “Captain, I need you to take the helm. I need this man to come tear all my clothes off”. I figure Wash is just a lot better at it than him. IIRC, though, they were out of orbit and in space at that point. “Take the helm,” doesn’t necessarily mean “fly the ship,” it could just be, “watch the control panels for any flashing lights or warning sirens.” > [@](#): > > I also adore this series. It does however have two problems with it that I see: > > It relies too much on the ‘neat setup’. Usually what is needed to solve the problem has conveniently been introduced earlier in the episode. (The two examples that come to mind are Vera and the Vac suits, in ‘Our Mrs Reynolds’ and umm… the Reavers episode.) Eh. I don’t think either of those are particularly strong examples. You’d naturally expect a spaceship to have vacuum suits, and you’d similarly expect Jayne to have lots of guns. It’s not like they open the episode with the doctor discovering a new medicine just before everyone on the crew gets sick with a disease his medicine happens to be a cure for, ot anything like that. Both episodes would have worked just as well without setting up the life-saving item ahead of time. > [@](#): > > The villains are weak. The main ‘bad guys’ are the guys with the blue hands and Nischka (or however you spell his name), both of whom are just generically evil. The alliance highups tend to be like this - stereotypical pompous officials. This isn’t usually a major problem, because the show does not rely on having villains - they’re usually not relevant to the plot. However, in the few episodes where they are there, it is a weakness. True enough, but I think this is mostly because the show got cancelled so soon. They were still in the process of establishing the main characters: they never got a chance to really establish any of the villains. Had the show gone a full season, I don’t think this would be a legitimate complaint. ---
**Author:** ![kitarak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kitarak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitarak)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/63 "2004-07-17T22:22:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > IIRC, though, they were out of orbit and in space at that point. “Take the helm,” doesn’t necessarily mean “fly the ship,” it could just be, “watch the control panels for any flashing lights or warning sirens.” Hmm. Ok, good point there. > [@](#): > > Eh. I don’t think either of those are particularly strong examples. You’d naturally expect a spaceship to have vacuum suits, and you’d similarly expect Jayne to have lots of guns. It’s not like they open the episode with the doctor discovering a new medicine just before everyone on the crew gets sick with a disease his medicine happens to be a cure for, ot anything like that. Both episodes would have worked just as well without setting up the life-saving item ahead of time. Yeah, I know they’re both weak examples. It’s something I noticed a while ago, and my mind is wandering today and I can’t remember what the specific examples I had in mind were. It was more of an observation of the style. My point isn’t really that it’s convenient that they’ve magically set it up ahead of time. It’s more than they seem to feel they _have_ to set it up ahead of time - as you say, both episodes would have worked just as well without the prior reference, but still they set it up. They seem to do that a lot - more than is neccesary. It’s not a major concern anyway. It’s nitpicking - but I’ve got to have _something_ to complain about. 😉 > [@](#): > > True enough, but I think this is mostly because the show got cancelled so soon. They were still in the process of establishing the main characters: they never got a chance to really establish any of the villains. Had the show gone a full season, I don’t think this would be a legitimate complaint. Eh. Maybe. Still, they just seemed like Generic Evil Guys to me. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/64 "2004-07-17T22:33:14Z")
> [@kitarak](#): > > but I’ve got to have _something_ to complain about. 😉 My complaint is that after getting most of the physics accurate, they had to have air aound the gun to fire. Whedon admits on the CD “Someone _told_ us it had to have air to fire.” ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/65 "2004-07-17T22:36:38Z")
I didn’t think the Generic Evil Guy was necessarily a problem, just like the Generic Spaceship and the Generic Alien Planet With Breathable Atmosphere. The show is about the main characters, and everything else is just background. Although it did bother me that the Reavers didn’t seem to have any logical motives at all. What did they gain by attacking that immigrant ship, for example? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/66 "2004-07-17T22:42:49Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Although it did bother me that the Reavers didn’t seem to have any logical motives at all. Which, along with Mal’s mention that the “survivor” is trying to become a Reaver, indicates they’re insane. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/67 "2004-07-17T22:50:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “They say that mercy is the quality of a great man. \ Guess I’m just pretty good. \ Well, I’m alright.” > > **Candid** , make that six compliments. Duly noted. And yeah, that part in Shindig splits my sides with laughter every single time I see it. ---
**Author:** ![kitarak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kitarak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitarak)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/68 "2004-07-17T22:55:57Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > I didn’t think the Generic Evil Guy was necessarily a problem, just like the Generic Spaceship and the Generic Alien Planet With Breathable Atmosphere. The show is about the main characters, and everything else is just background. Actually they do explain the breathable atmosphere - these worlds are terraformed. Further, serenity isn’t generic at all. She’s a very cranky and individualised spaceship. 🙂 That’s not the point though. The technology doesn’t matter so much: the show is character driven. This means that the supporting characters should be well done, and the villains are lacking in that in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/69 "2004-07-17T23:40:08Z")
Another factor in its favour are the speech patterns, with characters referring casually to “the 'verse” and not feeling the need to explain every little turn of phrase (as if to Data, or something). In a very light way it’s like listening to Shakespeare, where the dialog makes sense but you have to pay attention. I see no reason speech patterns and slang won’t subtly change in the next ~400 years, just as they have in the last 400. It does make me curious about Chinese curses, though. 'Whaddya wanna do? Clone him?" I love the line for its sarcasm, but have to admit it’s possible Jayne was partly-serious. ---
**Author:** ![PastAllReason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@PastAllReason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastAllReason)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/70 "2004-07-18T00:05:09Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > There is a clip of Whedon singing the theme song. > Do _ **NOT** _ watch it. 🙂 I did! I did! I \*\*did \*\* watch it! And I thought it was \. 😉 Along with the singing, according the commentaries there was some thought that he was going to play Badger. That would have been interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/71 "2004-07-18T05:48:45Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Book’s prasing there makes the quote, IMO. Yeah, yeah. I would have checked it against the DVDs, but as I said, I _haven’t freaking seen my DVDs in six months now!!_. Grumble, grumble. Stupid sister. Ah, well, at least they’re being put to good use. > [@](#): > > I noticed that the set decoration was more like … Blade Runner than Silent Running. There are rich, heavy fabrics—almost Indian in their opulence—in the companion’s quarters. The mess hall (dining room?) was akin to a lived-in version of an apartment complex clubhouse. If you look closely at the dining area, there are a lot of very cool touches. The table and chairs are made out of honest-to-goodness WOOD, and they appear to have been hand-carved. They would fit in in any Western set. And the walls have been hand-stenciled with leaves and flowers. In one of the DVD interviews, one of the head guys mentions that they wanted to clearly imply that Kylee had decorated the walls herself. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/72 "2004-07-18T06:20:24Z")
Allow me to offer a dissenting voice. Based on the rave reviews I read here, I rented one of the discs and didn’t find the episodes I watched to be anything special. Above average for a tv series, sure, some nice moments here and there, but nothing that made me want to rent the other three discs. I had the same experience with _Angel_ and _Babylon 5_; rented the first couple of discs to give them a chance based on what I read here, and couldn’t see what everyone recommending them seemed to see, even though I love Strazynski’s writing. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/73 "2004-07-18T07:17:32Z")
> [@Number Six](#): > > Allow me to offer a dissenting voice. Heretic! Burn him! _Buuuuurn hiiiiim!_ ---
**Author:** ![threeorange](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@threeorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threeorange)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/74 "2004-07-18T17:00:57Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > My favourite cliché-destroying bit (and there are an awful lot of them): > > Mal is in violent fistfight with the man who had earlier tortured him severely. Zoe, Jayne and Wash come running in to rescue Mal. > > Zoe: [seeing Mal locked in struggle, gives instructions to Jayne and Wash] Stay back, this is someting the Captain has to do for himself. > Mal: [desperately] No, it’s not! > Zoe: Oh. [she, Jayne and Wash put about fifty bullets into torturer] > > Brilliant. That’s it. I must see this show. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/75 "2004-07-19T12:59:52Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > Also, where she chases River all over Serenity to get her apple back…sigh… Mal: Ah, the pitter-pat of little feet in great, big combat boots… _SHUT UP!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/76 "2004-07-19T14:47:40Z")
This thread’s inspired me to watch my DVDs again. Just finished up watching “Ariel” and had pretty much the same reaction I always do. “God _damn_ this was one of the finest shows ever on television!” ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/77 "2004-07-19T15:22:21Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > Which, along with Mal’s mention that the “survivor” is trying to become a Reaver, indicates they’re insane. And we’re supposed to accept that insane people can form self-sustaining communities, keep spaceships in working order, etc.? I found that to be a bit of a stretch. Not that it detracted too much from the show, it’s just a nitpick. > [@](#): > > Zoe: [seeing Mal locked in struggle, gives instructions to Jayne and Wash] Stay back, this is someting the Captain has to do for himself. > Mal: [desperately] No, it’s not! While that was a hilarious scene, I liked the earlier cliche’-defying scene better. Zoe is negotiating for the return of her husband and her captain, both taken prisoner by Niska: Niska: I think this is not enough. Not enough for two. But sufficient, perhaps, for one. [evil grin] Ah… Now you have to… Zoe: Him. Niska: …? Zoe: I’m sorry. You were going to ask me to choose, right? Did you want to finish? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/78 "2004-07-19T15:32:45Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > And we’re supposed to accept that insane people can form self-sustaining communities, keep spaceships in working order, etc.? Good point. Maybe they’re insane savants. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/79 "2004-07-19T15:41:17Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > And we’re supposed to accept that insane people can form self-sustaining communities, keep spaceships in working order, etc.? The ship they passed was leaking some form of lethal radiation. Perhaps before they rape, skin and eat (what order do they do that in? But I digress) hapless space farers they make them fix their stuff. Surely they steal their stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/80 "2004-07-19T15:57:40Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Perhaps before they rape, skin and eat (what order do they do that in? But I digress) hapless space farers they make them fix their stuff. Surely they steal their stuff. No, they left all the stuff behind on the ship that got hit by Reavers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421.md?page=5)