# Explain Firefly **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421 "2004-07-16T14:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/121 "2004-07-22T00:40:22Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But that’s my problem with it. Up until that point, Kaylee was very much a character meant to resemble Willow. Yeah, but the thing is, she’s not Willow. Willow doesn’t even exsist in that universe. You only expect her to be like Willow because you’re watching a Joss Whedon show. That’s you (and me, in fairness) bringing in your own baggage from an entirely different show, and not a fault in anything done on this show. You might as well say they screwed up the character of Niska because he didn’t act like the Master. It’s two different characters on two different shows. Even if they are similar in some aspects, that doesn’t mean you should expect them to be the same in all aspects. Especially when they’re being written by a guy who’s actually good at what he does. Whedon’s way too smart and talented to just keep writing the same characters over and over. In retrospect, the fact that Kaylee had so many superficial similarities with Willow ought to have been a big red flag that she was going to turn out to be different in some pretty major ways. > [@](#): > > We were never shown anything different and in fact we were shown several times that Kaylee doesn’t know how to act around a boy she likes. She gets all shy and flustered. Then all of sudden, she is this very sexual being with a huge past that doesn’t jive at all with the Kaylee we’ve been shown. We were never shown anything at all about how Kaylee feels about sex, really. Except that, of everyone on the ship at the beginning of the (real) pilot, she seems to get along best with Inara. The space prostitute. That would indicate to me that she’s got a pretty liberated view of female sexuality. And I entirely dispute that she doesn’t know how to act around a boy she likes. The only time she ever gets flustered is when someone is deliberatly insulting her, like Jayne at the dinner table in the pilot, or the society bitches at the fancy ball. And that’s because she’s such a nice person that she doesn’t know how to react to open hostility like that. And I don’t know where the heck you got “shy” from. Next to “mean,” that’d be just about the last adjective I’d apply to her. Her relationship with Simon, it was consistenly _Simon_ that doesn’t know how to act around _her_, and he who gets flustered and embarassed, which almost always leads Kaylee to getting royally pissed at him. And that’s all down to class conflict: Simon comes from a priviledged background on the rarefied core planets, Kaylee from a poor farm family out on the coarse border worlds. She’s never at all shy about expressing her interest in him, and is far more forward than he is. If he wasn’t such a repressed snob, they’d have been shagging by the end of the first episode. > [@](#): > > And I know I’m not the _only_ one that thought this. I brought it up at another message board I frequent and while I was in the minority, I had a few supporters. Well, they’re wrong too. 😉 Seriously, though, if you can point to something from one of the preceeding episodes that contradicts her actions in the flashback in “Out of Gas,” I’m all ears. Something that springs from actual words or actions, and not from preconceptions about her sex life based on how she acts with her clothes on. Those never turn out to be accurate in real life, so it should be no different in a well written fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/122 "2004-07-22T01:07:32Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > we were shown several times that Kaylee doesn’t know how to act around a boy she likes In addition to **Miller** ’s comments, I’d like to observe that one’s behavior around a person one genuinely _likes_ (in, y’know, _that way_) is quite different from one’s behavior around somebody one just wants to bang. Kaylee, I think, knows the difference, and acts accordingly. I seriously doubt she _liked_ that pseudo-engineer, but she certainly enjoyed banging him. ---
**Author:** ![maikai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@maikai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maikai)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/123 "2004-07-22T01:36:33Z")
> [@petelin](#): > > Hey, **Smeghead** and/or **Tengu** , do you mind sharing where you found the extended blooper clip? That sounds pretty funny. I’m not **Smeghead** and/or **Tengu** , but if you type firefly blooper reel in Google it will be the very first link. It says “Hello, Cowgirl.” I’d give the actual link but I’m not sure how the Mods would feel about that. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/124 "2004-07-22T01:58:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Her relationship with Simon, it was consistenly _Simon_ that doesn’t know how to act around _her_, and he who gets flustered and embarassed, which almost always leads Kaylee to getting royally pissed at him. And that’s all down to class conflict: Simon comes from a priviledged background on the rarefied core planets, Kaylee from a poor farm family out on the coarse border worlds. Weeeeeell, I wouldn’t say it’s ALL a matter of class. I doubt a girl from Osiris would have reacted any better to his ‘Well, you’re my only real option’ when he was attempting to flatter her than Kaylee did. I’d say most of it is that Simon simply…isn’t good with women. He get nervous, says the wrong thing, and thereby ticks Kaylee off. He never means any of it, he just blurts things out without thinking, and pays for it. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/125 "2004-07-22T01:59:59Z")
Thanks, pulehoopo. For the record, I stated I found it online, then I stated I used a service we’ve been asked not to discuss here. Ya bunch of jokers. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/126 "2004-07-22T02:06:37Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Weeeeeell, I wouldn’t say it’s ALL a matter of class. > > I doubt a girl from Osiris would have reacted any better to his ‘Well, you’re my only real option’ when he was attempting to flatter her than Kaylee did. > > I’d say most of it is that Simon simply…isn’t good with women. He get nervous, says the wrong thing, and thereby ticks Kaylee off. He never means any of it, he just blurts things out without thinking, and pays for it. That imples that there’re people he _is_ good with. 🙂 Good point, though. It’s a combination of the two: I was thinking specifically of “Jaynestown,” both how he got her pissed in that one, (“I’d never do something like that with Kaylee!”) and his explanation to her about why he keeps saying stuff like that at the end of the episode. In that case, I think his response would have been appropriate if she had been a wealthy socialite back on a coreworld. But note that Kaylee was _angered_ by his attempt to not make her look like a slut! Another point in favor of her behavior in “Out of Gas,” I think. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/127 "2004-07-22T02:21:43Z")
THe interaction between Walsh and Kaylee…I think it’s in Shindig, Mrs. Plant lost the remote to the CD player. “If I were not a married man, I would (whatever)” “Because I’m pretty?” “Because you’re pretty.” ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/128 "2004-07-22T02:27:55Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > “If I were not a married man, I would (whatever)” ‘…take you in a manly fashion.’ or something along those lines. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/129 "2004-07-22T02:49:01Z")
Thanks, Tengu. Spoilers below I expected her to take out Early in some fashion, rather than just holler a lot. I had a problem in their flying Serenity with just one catalytic converter or whatever failed in _Out of Gas_. Good gad, steal a spare before you start the trip. Anyone else think the program could have offended TPTB with things like the prostitute shooting the father of her child holding said child in her arms (“Say good bye to Daddy”), or in _Saved_ Mal chiding the townspeople “Worry about the man hanging from the spaceship with the big gun, not God.” ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/130 "2004-07-22T03:05:46Z")
I think Simon’s main issue was that he was being both precisely honest and correct when he pointe dout to Kaylee taht she was his only option. I think he’s not infatuatred with her. Not in the same way Kaylee is with him. I mean, he likes her as a friend well enough, and she’s pretty, so he’ll take what he can get. Not that I really blame him. I mean, he’s a fugitive in a strange land, with the stresses of dealing with his sister and Jayne and Mal. I’d snuggle up with teh first friendly and willing thing I found too. It’s lonely in space. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/131 "2004-07-22T03:09:17Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I had a problem in their flying Serenity with just one catalytic converter or whatever failed in _Out of Gas_. Good gad, steal a spare before you start the trip. It was a catalyzer on the port compression coil. In fact Kaylee asked for a spare compression coil in the pilot episode, and IIRC Mal told her they didn’t have the money. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/132 "2004-07-22T03:23:25Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > It was a catalyzer on the port compression coil. In fact Kaylee asked for a spare compression coil in the pilot episode, and IIRC Mal told her they didn’t have the money. I thought “catalyst” came in there somewhere and was trying to make a pun. Darn Mrs. Plant losing the remote. When Mal tells me we can’t afford a spare tire crossing the Mohave desert in his pickup, I tell him “Reckon I’ll take the job flipping burgers in St. Louis”. Excellent chronology, though. ---
**Author:** ![Teelo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@Teelo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teelo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/133 "2004-07-22T03:33:15Z")
The thing about Kaylee’s introduction was that she wanted to get near a ship engine somehow, so she got with a mechanic of one. She _did_ seem more interested in the workings of the engine rather than the sex, being that she was able to determine the problem with the engine while in heat. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/134 "2004-07-22T11:20:11Z")
Another nice little cliche-twisting exchange, from “Shindig”: **Mal:** And I _never_ back down from a fight. **Inara:** Yes you do. You do all the time! **Mal:** Well, yeah. But I’m not backing down from this one! Also, the crew’s whole elaborate rescue plan… …which doesn’t wind up going anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/135 "2004-07-22T13:24:58Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > I think Simon’s main issue was that he was being both precisely honest and correct when he pointe dout to Kaylee taht she was his only option. I think he’s not infatuatred with her. Not in the same way Kaylee is with him. I mean, he likes her as a friend well enough, and she’s pretty, so he’ll take what he can get. > > Not that I really blame him. I mean, he’s a fugitive in a strange land, with the stresses of dealing with his sister and Jayne and Mal. I’d snuggle up with teh first friendly and willing thing I found too. It’s lonely in space. To be just a little fair to Simon, in an earlier episode (Jaynestown?) Kaylee said pretty much the same things to Simon, only she said it better (“we get along, we’re out here in the middle of nowhere, we’ve got lots of time on our hands…”). I can tell y’all aren’t reading Television Without Pity’s recaps, though. The generally-accepted reason there for Simon’s problems with Kaylee is that he’s gay. Then again, so are most of the characters on the ship, and most other TV shows, according to TWOP. I’ll be in ma bunk. ---
**Author:** ![petelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@petelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/petelin)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/136 "2004-07-22T14:11:47Z")
Thanks **pulehoopo** , **smeghead** and **Tengu** for…uh…_officially_, nothing. It was unofficially worth it. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/137 "2004-07-22T14:22:30Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > It was a catalyzer on the port compression coil. In fact Kaylee asked for a spare compression coil in the pilot episode, and IIRC Mal told her they didn’t have the money. Also, in _Ariel_ when Wash and Kayleigh are looking through the junkyard, the thing that Wash picks up and throws in disgust (right before they find the ambulance thing) is the same part. (Probably why he’s so disgusted with it.) The show was really good on its continuity. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/138 "2004-07-22T17:41:58Z")
And what other SF series not only showed us a toilet, but showed us a toilet _being used._ Gotta get a few points for that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/139 "2004-07-23T12:59:53Z")
**StarvingButStrong** : Babylon 5. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421/140 "2004-07-23T13:32:14Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > **StarvingButStrong** : Babylon 5. Ah? Couldn’t make it past the pilot of that series. Maybe I should try again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-firefly/255421.md?page=8)