# Explain hyphens to me **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 19, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895 "2005-10-19T14:11:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/1 "2005-10-19T14:11:56Z")
Either I never had any idea when to use a hyphen (and that is possible, I remember having “language arts” instead of English in grade school) or it is falling out of favor, because I rarely see a hyphen where I think it should be. “John isn’t here, Bill will have to act as a stand in.” I saw this in a book last night. A professional writer and his editer both let it be published. I would have thought it was “stand-in.” In general, I figure I need a hyphen if two words seem to be acting together as if they were one word. If you pull one of the words out and it doesn’t make sense, you need a hyphen. Bill will have to act as a stand? Bill will have to act as a in? No, the words are acting as one “Bill will have to act as a stand-in.” Set me on the right path dopers. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/2 "2005-10-19T14:33:02Z")
Short answer: pick a dictionary you like and go with it. Our office has decreed the Random House Unabridged to be _ **the** _ dictionary. They have “setup” as one word, which looks wrong to me, but wtf, that’s what RH says. (And, yes, I have to look it up every single effin’ time.) In general, it’s not so much whether a part can stand alone or not, it’s how the phrase functions. For instance, a noun phrase that ordinarily wouldn’t get hyphenated, if it functions adjectivally, does (_She topped the salad with bleu cheese; she added a bleu-cheese topping_). Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/3 "2005-10-19T14:37:03Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > Either I never had any idea when to use a hyphen (and that is possible, I remember having “language arts” instead of English in grade school) or it is falling out of favor, because I rarely see a hyphen where I think it should be. > > “John isn’t here, Bill will have to act as a stand in.” I saw this in a book last night. A professional writer and his editer both let it be published. > > I would have thought it was “stand-in.” In general, I figure I need a hyphen if two words seem to be acting together as if they were one word. If you pull one of the words out and it doesn’t make sense, you need a hyphen. > > Bill will have to act as a stand? > Bill will have to act as a in? > > No, the words are acting as one “Bill will have to act as a stand-in.” > > Set me on the right path dopers. I believe the hyphen is used to reduce confusion. When two adjectives are combined to describe a noun, the hyphen lets you know that they are working as a pair. With the original sentence the adjectives “stand in” are at the end of the sentence and thus there’s little confusion on how to read the sentence properly and understand the context. Had the sentence read “John isn’t here, Bill will have to act as a stand in boss” then a hyphen would reduce confusion. What gets me about the original sentence is that it’s really two sentences that should have been written as: “John isn’t here. Bill will have to act as a stand in.” or… “John isn’t here; Bill will have to act as a stand in.” ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/4 "2005-10-19T14:44:42Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I believe the hyphen is used to reduce confusion. When two adjectives are combined to describe a noun, the hyphen lets you know that they are working as a pair. With the original sentence the adjectives “stand in” are at the end of the sentence and thus there’s little confusion on how to read the sentence properly and understand the context. Had the sentence read “John isn’t here, Bill will have to act as a stand in boss” then a hyphen would reduce confusion. > > What gets me about the original sentence is that it’s really two sentences that should have been written as: > > “John isn’t here. Bill will have to act as a stand in.” or… > “John isn’t here; Bill will have to act as a stand in.” Actually, that is my poor grammer. That wasn’t even the original sentence. The original was in a geek book and I figured I would make it easier by paraphrasing. The original went something like this: “The Proxy design pattern is used when a class acts as a stand in for another class.” I felt that it should be stand-in. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/5 "2005-10-19T14:54:58Z")
When a noun phrase is used adjectivally, the parts are joined by a hyphen or hyphens to clarify, as someone noted, that they are to be taken as a unit. “A small engine repairman” is a midget mechanic; “a small-engine repairman” is a man, probably of normal build, who specializes in small engines (lawnmowers, go-karts, etc.). Occasionally it’s appropriate to do this with an adjective phrase, too, as in the second example below. The boy is thirteen years old. The thirteen-year-old boy kissed a girl for the first time. The girl was erotically aroused. The erotically-aroused girl kissed him back. When a proper noun becomes part of such a phrase, it’s customary to allow the capitalization hold it together, and only hyphenate the last word. “Hyundai is the world’s largest Republic of Korea-based company.” (That sentence is awkward, and should be reworked for more euphonious style, but it’s grammatically and punctuationally accurate.) ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/6 "2005-10-19T15:02:22Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > The boy is thirteen years old. The thirteen-year-old boy kissed a girl for the first time. The girl was erotically aroused. The erotically-aroused girl kissed him back. Actually, adverbs never get hyphenated in these phrases. (Where’s the angelic smiley when we need it?) ---
**Author:** ![Foaming\_Cleanser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Foaming\_Cleanser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foaming_Cleanser)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/7 "2005-10-19T16:00:02Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Actually, adverbs never get hyphenated in these phrases. (Where’s the angelic smiley when we need it?) Is twickster an angelic smiley proponent 🙂 or an angelic-smiley proponent? Hyphens in triple modifiers are as important: One sentence could have two meanings or end up as plain nonsense if the second one is dropped or both are. There are three-year-olds attending the preschool. There are three year-olds attending the preschool. There are three-year olds attending the preschool. There are three year olds attending the preschool. And as twickster said, the ly at the end of the modifier removes the need for a hyphen: The quickly moving van overtuned on the curve.(No confusion.) The fast moving van overturned on the curve. (Confusion.) ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/8 "2005-10-19T16:19:31Z")
> [@Foaming Cleanser](#): > > Is twickster an angelic smiley proponent 🙂 or an angelic-smiley proponent? (both, now that you mention it… 😉 ) Good clarification on the “ly” thing. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/9 "2005-10-19T16:25:06Z")
A hyphen also denotes female virginity. 😉 If a girl still has one, custom and tradition demand that we treat her as a virgin. Mary Lurleen has not chosen to display a hyphen, and this doesn’t necessarily mean she’s not a virgin. Mary-Lurleen shows hyphen, so she is treated as a virgin, even if your best friend says he boinked her last Friday under the bleachers. I love these obscure rules of grammar and manners, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![SavageNarce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@SavageNarce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SavageNarce)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/10 "2005-10-21T01:47:19Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > A hyphen also denotes female virginity. 😉 And your sig displays the oft-rumoured “broken hyphen” ( – ) variously attributed to sexual activity, vigorous gymnastics (sometimes the same thing) or horseback riding (or all three at the same time, which is something worth capturing on film for the edification of future generations…) :eek: ---
**Author:** ![MyNameIsEarl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@MyNameIsEarl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyNameIsEarl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/11 "2005-10-21T01:51:48Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > Actually, that is my poor grammer. Poor spelling, too. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/12 "2005-10-21T04:11:27Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > Set me on the right path dopers. I would, but I must dash. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/13 "2005-10-21T08:43:19Z")
The hyphen is the least rigidly codified punctuation mark in English, this side of the comma. As an editor, my rule of thumb is usually Occam’s Razor: I use a hyphen when doing so reduces confusion; I eschew it when it’s not necessary. In other words, when in doubt, leave it out. Still, consistency within a document is more important. When I’m editing something for an author who has a hyphen fetish, I just make sure that at least it’s never used _incorrectly_, and is always consistent. Some of my general rules: [ul] [li]A hyphen is used to make it clear that two words are linked together. If that is made clear otherwise–say, if the word pair is enclosed in quotes–I eschew the hyphen: _Aloysius assured us the bullfighter was “finger lickin” good._[/li][li]If the compound adjective is a phrase that is frequently used as such, and there’s no real chance of confusion, I leave out the hyphen: _His grandmother had the thighs of a long distance runner._[/li][li]. . . and I can’t think of any more just now; it’s already tomorrow. I’ll repost if it comes back to me.[/li][/ul] And, as mentioned above, an adverb NEVER requires a hyphen, whether it’s got an -ly ending or not. Personally, I don’t even use a hyphen with the adverb “well,” unless there’s actually a chance of confusing it with the noun. Many people, however, make an exception to the adverb rule with this word. I find this habit archaic and unnecessary, but I think it’s gonna be around for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/14 "2005-10-21T09:35:43Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > “John isn’t here, Bill will have to act as a stand in.” Shouldn’t that be “John isn’t here **-** Bill will have to act as a stand in.”? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/15 "2005-10-21T10:11:11Z")
Hypens are also used this side of the Atlantic to help with words like co-operate, pre-empt and the like to indicate that the double letter is not a diphthong. You chaps over there write “cooperate” and “preempt” which look odd to us. Oh, and “coworker”, which has a bovine connotation. In the American book I am currently reading, the publishers have employed a diaresis in “coöperate”, which is even retained when the word is split at the end of a line, viz: co- öperate Similar to the use noted by **Polycarp** above, the hyphen indicates where a word’s meaning is modified when used in a phrase. For example, the word “short” in “short-list” doesn’t (necessarily) mean “the opposite of long”: you could, if you wished, have a short-list of 45,000. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/16 "2005-10-21T12:26:58Z")
> [@MyNameIsEarl](#): > > Poor spelling, too. Bah. If you wanted to spend time pointing out poor spelling on this board, it would be more than a full time job. Just for my posts alone. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/17 "2005-10-21T15:03:39Z")
The general trend in American English (perhaps elsewhere as well) seems to be to use hyphens in new formulations and then gradually drop them, making simple words of compound words: to-morrow [1930] --\> tomorrow [modern] stand-alone [1960] --\> standalone [modern] e-mail [1990] --\> email [modern] ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/18 "2005-10-21T15:37:40Z")
Not sure when it stopped, but over here we also used to use hyphens in street names, like Oxford-street. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/19 "2005-10-21T18:37:17Z")
> [@seosamh](#): > > Not sure when it stopped, but over here we also used to use hyphens in street names, like Oxford-street. Do y’all still put commas at the ends of lines of addresses? John Doe, 123 Main Street, Yourtown, ST xxxxx That’s always struck me as extremely strange. ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-hyphens-to-me/326895/20 "2005-10-21T19:33:53Z")
Some people still do. I do, particularly when writing envelopes nicely (i.e. with a fountain pen). But then I stagger the lines.