# Explain newspaper headlines to me: comma instead of "and"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 25, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907 "2006-10-25T23:05:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/1 "2006-10-25T23:05:20Z")
I can’t find an online article to illustrate the point, but I’ve seen headlines that read “I like apples, oranges” where it is meant “I like apples and oranges”. I’ve never seen that construct in other literature, just headlines. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Omphaloskeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bcef8e/32.png) [@Omphaloskeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omphaloskeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/2 "2006-10-25T23:29:08Z")
[QUOTE=Dog80] I can’t find an online article to illustrate the point, but I’ve seen headlines that read “I like apples, oranges” where it is meant “I like apples and oranges”. I’ve never seen that construct in other literature, just headlines. Why is that? [/QUOTE] “Saves space,” sources say ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/3 "2006-10-25T23:29:16Z")
A comma takes up a lot less space than an and, or even an &. That lets you put the rest of the headline in a larger font and still convey the same information. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/4 "2006-10-25T23:30:21Z")
Answers Simulposted, Lemur Enraged ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/5 "2006-10-25T23:30:28Z")
Saves space, keeps meaning. Writing headlines is an art: you need to fit the information in a set space. So headline writers have to come up with ways to get the gist of the story in as few words as possible. “And” is often superfluous, so they use the comma. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/6 "2006-10-25T23:34:03Z")
Their semicolon key is broken? ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/7 "2006-10-25T23:52:33Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Their semicolon key is broken? [/QUOTE] Most people can’t be trusted with a comma, let alone a semicolon. Besides, writing headlines is not the time or place to be grammatically correct. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/8 "2006-10-26T00:52:09Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Their semicolon key is broken? [/QUOTE] We don’t need no stinkin’ semicolons. We’re journalists. Besides. One would naturally use a comma in a list of more than two things – apples, oranges and bananas – right? Eliminate the “and” but keep the comma. ---
**Author:** ![Mbossa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Mbossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mbossa)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/9 "2006-10-26T02:30:27Z")
My favourite example of this is from The Simpsons: “Local man loses pants, life” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/10 "2006-10-26T03:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Their semicolon key is broken? [/QUOTE] Why would you use a semicolon instead of a comma? This construction makes no sense: > [@](#): > > I like apples; oranges. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/11 "2006-10-26T07:03:35Z")
The onion makes extensive use of this style, which was the first place I consciously encountered it. I don’t think UK newspapers use it much, if at all. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/12 "2006-10-26T10:24:36Z")
Glad we could give you a h, ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/13 "2006-10-26T10:51:13Z")
Headlines, pah! If you really want to abbreviate, try writing classified ads. EOE ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/14 "2006-10-26T11:14:34Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] The onion makes extensive use of this style, which was the first place I consciously encountered it. I don’t think UK newspapers use it much, if at all. [/QUOTE] It is indeed a peculiarly US habit, but I don’t think it’s particularly space-saving. Our papers seem to do fine using the word “and”; indeed the Guardian’s very excellent [styleguide](http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/page/0,,184838,00.html) actively opposes the habit: > [@](#): > > …resist the temptation to replace “and” with a comma: “Blair and Brown agree euro deal” not “Blair, Brown agree euro deal”. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/15 "2006-10-26T11:44:20Z")
Why is dropping “on” (or possibly “to”)\* Ok, while dropping “and” is wrong? \*“Blair and Brown agree on euro deal” or “Blair and Brown agree to euro deal.” There’s a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/16 "2006-10-26T13:24:52Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Why would you use a semicolon instead of a comma? [/QUOTE] A headline like “Answers Simulposted; Lemur Enraged” would be grammatical, though. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/17 "2006-10-26T13:43:47Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] Why is dropping “on” (or possibly “to”)\* Ok, while dropping “and” is wrong? [/QUOTE] That’s a good catch. US newspapers probably wouldn’t drop the ‘on’. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/18 "2006-10-26T13:51:30Z")
I think it’s probably very similar to the use (or not) of ‘and’ in spoken numbers; “two hundred _and_ sixty five” I understand - “two hundred sixty five” sounds like a list containing two distinct number to me. Not that either is intrinsically superior to the other, of course. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/19 "2006-10-26T14:28:26Z")
[QUOTE=gotpasswords] Besides, writing headlines is not the time or place to be grammatically correct. [/QUOTE] Use “grammatical”, save space. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907/20 "2006-10-26T14:33:42Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] Why is dropping “on” (or possibly “to”)\* Ok, while dropping “and” is wrong? [/QUOTE] It’s house style - arbitrarily chosen, as all house styles are, same as using the comma instead of “and”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-newspaper-headlines-to-me-comma-instead-of-and/377907.md?page=2)