# Explain Obama's Job Approval Rating to Me **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 20, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284 "2011-10-20T19:12:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/21 "2011-10-20T22:06:03Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I think moderates see Obama as weak, if not inept, his accomplishments notwithstanding. They also see him as too willing to give in to a party that has absolutely no intention of working with him. He’s ‘bi-partisaned’ himself into a corner. > > Compromise is one thing, and necessary in politics, but letting the other guy have everything he wants, while you get nothing and don’t even put up a fight, causes folks to wonder if they backed the wrong horse. So I take it you’re someone else who sees job approval as an absolute measure, rather than relative to the expected performance of the alternatives to Obama? If so, how do you calibrate your expectations? Are you implicitly comparing him to a President you liked, or what? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/22 "2011-10-20T22:43:44Z")
His rating right now is not relative to anything. Once we get Romney as the candidate, we will have something to compare it to. Our country has been through some terrible times . He has been at the top during that time. So he takes some heat that he probably does not deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/23 "2011-10-20T23:04:16Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > He did not propose the plan to kill Osama, he approved it. > > Whether a Depression will be avoided remains to be seen. > > His health care plan is in serious danger–some courts have declared parts of it unconstitutional, and SCOTUS will probably end up deciding the issue. Another part is not feasible–see [Bricker’s thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=627982). > > Troops are still in Iraq. And Gitmo is open and we’re in Libya and Africa. AND nemployment is still 9 per cent, give or take. (Probably give, seeing as how some aren’t being counted.) It has been steadily going up since 2008. And his education overhaul plans are worse than NCLB. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/24 "2011-10-20T23:10:06Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > AND nemployment is still 9 per cent, give or take. (Probably give, seeing as how some aren’t being counted.) It has been steadily going up since 2008. By the relevant measure – the number and pace of private sector job creation after Obama’s economic policies went into effect – Obama is doing just fine. I get how low-information voters might have the sense that Obama has failed to create jobs. But my question is that, given that this is not factually correct, why does that notion persist? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/25 "2011-10-20T23:11:33Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > AND nemployment is still 9 per cent, give or take. (Probably give, seeing as how some aren’t being counted.) It has been steadily going up since 2008. Thats not true, [unemployment maxed out at 10.1 % in Oct 2009](http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&fdim_y=seasonality:S&dl=en&hl=en&q=unemployment+rate#ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate&fdim_y=seasonality:S&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=state&ifdim=state&tdim=true&tstart=977288400000&tend=1313812800000&hl=en&dl=en). Its been improving since then, granted much more slowly then anyone would like. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/26 "2011-10-20T23:15:16Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Thats not true, [unemployment maxed out at 10.1 % in Oct 2009](http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&fdim_y=seasonality:S&dl=en&hl=en&q=unemployment+rate#ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate&fdim_y=seasonality:S&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=state&ifdim=state&tdim=true&tstart=977288400000&tend=1313812800000&hl=en&dl=en). Its been improving since then, granted much more slowly then anyone would like. Apologies. Rose, hit a peak, and there’s only an overall 1 per cent difference since October 2009. It’s still really, really shitty. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/27 "2011-10-20T23:17:21Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Thats not true, [unemployment maxed out at 10.1 % in Oct 2009](http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&fdim_y=seasonality:S&dl=en&hl=en&q=unemployment+rate#ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate&fdim_y=seasonality:S&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=state&ifdim=state&tdim=true&tstart=977288400000&tend=1313812800000&hl=en&dl=en). Its been improving since then, granted much more slowly then anyone would like. [http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/01/07/137866/obama-more-jobs-bush/](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/01/07/137866/obama-more-jobs-bush/) here is the graph on jobs since the Bush depression. It has been a difficult battle to overcome the mess we were left by the Shrub. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/28 "2011-10-20T23:19:36Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > By the relevant measure – the number and pace of private sector job creation after Obama’s economic policies went into effect – Obama is doing just fine. > > I get how low-information voters might have the sense that Obama has failed to create jobs. But my question is that, given that this is not factually correct, why does that notion persist? I’m not a voter who thinks that Obama operates a Jobs Creating Machine or that you can blame the economy on him. I’m trying to answer the OP’s question. I also reject that he ‘saved’ the economy in any such a way that a Republican president wouldn’t have. I mean, it’s his damned job to do the bare minimum. As far as jobs go, I have seen conflicting reports on what jobs were being created and what kinds of jobs - NPR, Slate, and the standard Big Media have all posited it different ways. Depends on how you look it. I don’t think the unemployment rate is recovering. I see it stagnating. I think that’s the word I’m looking for, anyway. It’s the word I’m thinking of for when something is just bobbing the water. Up/down, sure, but nothing really major. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/29 "2011-10-20T23:22:00Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/01/07/137866/obama-more-jobs-bush/](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/01/07/137866/obama-more-jobs-bush/) here is the graph on jobs since the Bush depression. > It has been a difficult battle to overcome the mess we were left by the Shrub. > [@](#): > > Nonfarm payroll employment edged up by 103,000 in September, and the unemployment rate held at 9.1 percent, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. The increase in employment partially reflected the return to payrolls of about 45,000 telecommunications workers who had been on strike in August. In September, job gains occurred in professional and business services, health care, and construction. > Government employment continued to trend down. You mean [this](http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm)? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/30 "2011-10-20T23:24:52Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > As far as jobs go, I have seen conflicting reports on what jobs were being created and what kinds of jobs - NPR, Slate, and the standard Big Media have all posited it different ways. Depends on how you look it. > > I don’t think the unemployment rate is recovering. I see it stagnating. I think that’s the word I’m looking for, anyway. It’s the word I’m thinking of for when something is just bobbing the water. Up/down, sure, but nothing really major. I don’t think there’s any dispute about the basic facts. Private employment has been rising faster than population growth (meaning if all else were equal, the unemployment rate would drop). In fact, increases in private employment have been chugging along pretty consistently with previous financial recessions. But public employment has been dropping and dropping – that’s teachers, firefighters, etc. This means the GOP’s explanations for low job creation – high taxes and new regulations – are factually incorrect. They would not explain the (relative) success of the private sector jobs market and the failure of the public sector jobs market. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/31 "2011-10-20T23:35:26Z")
Is this thread a joke? > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > A brief list of Obama’s accomplishments so far: > > - avoided a second Great Depression. Aside from the fact that I didn’t know the world or U.S. economy was bordering on a second Great Depression, how did he do that? > [@](#): > > - presided over massive private sector job growth, adding well over a million net private jobs since the Stimulus, more than George Bush added in 8 years. [Politifact already rated this as half true](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/oct/25/nancy-pelosi/nancy-pelosi-says-more-private-sector-jobs-created/). > [@](#): > > Total employment – that is, the combination of private- and public-sector jobs – during Bush’s tenure increased by 1.08 million, while total employment in 2010 has increased by 599,000. (Quick aside: Who would have thought that federal and state government jobs would have increased by 1.7 million in eight years under Bush and fallen by 357,000 since President Barack Obama took office?) > > Second, Pelosi chose her start and end dates in a way that’s highly favorable to Obama and unfavorable to Bush. > > If she’d instead chosen to start from the beginning of Obama’s term – rather than half way through his first two years – she would be stuck with a net loss of nearly 3 million private-sector jobs, not the increase of 847,000 she came up with for 2010. Pelosi essentially started counting from the low point for jobs and only counted the upward part of the trendline. > > Meanwhile, the start and end points she used for Bush give the former president no such break. The jobs picture under Bush looked like an arc, heading generally upward through mid 2007 before heading downward again. If she had used only the upward portion of the arc, as she did for Obama, it would have showed a gain of 3.9 million private-sector jobs. While, technically, it might not be Obama’s fault they don’t have a job, the current POTUS always gets the blame when the economy goes south. > [@](#): > > -passed health care reform (which is, among other things, a ban on insurance discrimination based on pre-existing conditions; subsidies for low-income Americans to purchase insurance; coverage for people up to age 26 on their parents insurance; filling the Medicare donut hole and expanding Medicaid to 133% of poverty level; and pilot measures in reducing medical costs – all of which is more than paid for, according to the CBO. Last I checked, more people as a whole opposed the law than supported it. > [@](#): > > - saved the auto industry How did he do that? If you’re going to give credit to Obama for saving the auto industry, then I believe you would need to give that credit to Bush since he was the one who initially authorized money to be sent to Chrysler/GM (or whoever it was). > [@](#): > > - repealed DADT Your average voter could not care less about whether gays serve openly in the military or not, as it has no practical effect on themselves or their livelihood. Middle class Joe Blow cares more about financial security than he does DADT. Repealing DADT wins Obama brownie points with his base, but otherwise it doesn’t matter. > [@](#): > > - proposed a politically risky military operation that successfully killed Bin Laden, not to mention killing many other Al Qaeda leaders The only thing he did was say “go”. A case of being in the right place at the right time, but hardly something to get someone reelected over. > [@](#): > > - ended torture When? > [@](#): > > - cut middle class taxes To what effect? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/32 "2011-10-20T23:40:12Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I don’t think there’s any dispute about the basic facts. Private employment has been rising faster than population growth (meaning if all else were equal, the unemployment rate would drop). In fact, increases in private employment have been chugging along pretty consistently with previous financial recessions. But public employment has been dropping and dropping – that’s teachers, firefighters, etc. > > This means the GOP’s explanations for low job creation – high taxes and new regulations – are factually incorrect. They would not explain the (relative) success of the private sector jobs market and the failure of the public sector jobs market. Again, numbers can be skewed either way. The public sector market is alarming if you single out just firefighters, teachers, and police officers. These are the kinds of people we _need_ employed because if they aren’t, it means someone is suffering because of short-staffing. It’s not like there are too many teachers and not enough kids. There just isn’t enough cash. Oh but no worries, we can just apply for millions in federal grants to ‘train better teachers’ on how to handle a 45 kid classroom with not enough books. :rolleyes: Pinky in the gaping hole at the bottom of the boat for some of these policies. What I’d like to know is how many of these people aren’t being counted - who is going back to school and taking out more loans because they can’t get a job? Who has graduated college since 2008 and isn’t employed? Or employed in a lower-paying job because that’s what’s available? Or how about people like me - a teacher who is underemployed, without benefits, and does not qualify for Medicaid or other help? It’s very nice that such and such a factory worker is back on the payroll and getting the same hourly rate as I am, but there’s a bigger picture when it comes to unemployment. People will see it how it relates to them, their communities, and their family. Forget employment rates. How about [underemployment](http://www.gallup.com/poll/149525/gallup-finds-underemployment-stuck-mid-sept.aspx)? > [@](#): > > PRINCETON, NJ – Underemployment, a measure that combines the percentage of workers who are unemployed with the percentage working part time but wanting full-time work, is 18.5% in mid-September – the same as the 18.5% at the end of August and the 18.6% of mid-September a year ago. Numbers, polls, stats, and biased newspapers are all tricky. But you can’t deny that things are bad. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/33 "2011-10-20T23:40:15Z")
It does not come as a shock that a GOP partisan disagrees with the OP. As I said, I’m more interested in what the moderates are thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/34 "2011-10-20T23:42:19Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Again, numbers can be skewed either way. Is there anyone who disagrees with the BLS numbers that private employment has steadily increases since the summer of 2009 and that public sector jobs have steadily dropped? I don’t think there’s any disagreement there. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/35 "2011-10-20T23:54:21Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > You mean [this](http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm)? Of course not. Our esteemed repubs will not pass a jobs bill. They are sitting on potential economic recovery to get a repub president. But Bush was losing jobs at an unprecedented rate. When Obama came in the jobs creation was on a steady incline. The repubs are hurting the recovery because they need a repub in office. There may be 2 or 3 Supreme Court appointments and they want even more far righties on the court. I have great fear of what they would do with that power. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/36 "2011-10-21T00:01:01Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It does not come as a shock that a GOP partisan disagrees with the OP. As I said, I’m more interested in what the moderates are thinking. I’m conflicted on whether or not I should deem that as a personal attack or an ad hominem. Either way, I find your claim of someone else being a partisan to be… ironic. You made some dubious claims and assertions, yet refuse to explain them. Such a raving non-partisan you are. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/37 "2011-10-21T00:04:58Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I’m conflicted on whether or not I should deem that as a personal attack or an ad hominem. Either way, I find your claim of someone else being a partisan to be… ironic. You made some dubious claims and assertions, yet refuse to explain them. Such a raving non-partisan you are. I leapt to the wild conclusion that someone with the username “Omg a Black Conservative” might be a solid conservative, rather than a moderate. And it’s true, I’m not that interested in debating the facts I state in the OP. Sometimes, when people debate, they like to take a premise as true for the purpose of debating some other issues. I accept that you disagree with my assertions. If you mean to argue that moderate America agrees with your assessment of my facts, then your opinion is duly noted. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/38 "2011-10-21T00:45:40Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > By the relevant measure – the number and pace of private sector job creation after Obama’s economic policies went into effect – Obama is doing just fine. "_It’s very clear that private-sector jobs have been doing just fine; it’s the public sector jobs where we’ve lost huge numbers"_ - Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid _“Going back to 2008, the Labor Department reported 111.822 million employed private workers at the end of 2008. The number plunged during the recession, and as of September of this year overall private employment had climbed back to 109.349 million. But that’s still some 2.5 million fewer jobs than in 2008. If this is doing fine, we’d hate to see Mr. Reid’s definition of lousy.”_ - Wall St. Journal editorial, 10/20/11 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/39 "2011-10-21T00:48:03Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > "_It’s very clear that private-sector jobs have been doing just fine; it’s the public sector jobs where we’ve lost huge numbers"_ - Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid > > _“Going back to 2008, the Labor Department reported 111.822 million employed private workers at the end of 2008. The number plunged during the recession, and as of September of this year overall private employment had climbed back to 109.349 million. But that’s still some 2.5 million fewer jobs than in 2008. If this is doing fine, we’d hate to see Mr. Reid’s definition of lousy.”_ - Wall St. Journal editorial, 10/20/11 What a silly editorial. I’m pretty sure the WSJ understands the difference between a fine rate of increase and a fine overall level. But maybe their readers do not. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284/40 "2011-10-21T01:15:36Z")
I preferred Obama last election, but there are a couple issues I have: (1) He folded like Superman on laundry day during the debt crisis. We now have a very dangerous precedent. It is now legitimate to hold the debt limit hostage to get what you want. By giving in, he showed that this tactic can work, and in doing so made it much more likely to happen in the future. (2) Chrysler should not have been bailed out. It was a shitty company that deserved to die. (3) His general lack of ability to set the tone for the national debate, and apparent unwillingness to hold Republican feet to the fire. I value intelligent government over most political positions, and we’ve taken a huge step back in the level of intelligence demonstrated by the Federal Government. I recognize that that is mostly House Republican’s fault, but he his “be the grownup in the room” schtick has failed. I’m not silly enough to hand the reins over to Cain, Perry, or Bachman, but I’m willing to consider Romney. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-obamas-job-approval-rating-to-me/600284.md?page=3)