# Explain old-time naval timekeeping (Aubrey/Maturin) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 15, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536 "2015-12-15T15:28:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/61 "2015-12-20T22:01:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > How is “2 or 3 parts water to one part rum” not _watered?_ The point, I believe, is that water is added to rum to make grog. Grog has water in it already, and therefore does not need to be watered. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/62 "2015-12-20T22:25:27Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Well according to Sobel’s book it was probably mostly because the board that awarded the prizes was stacked with astronomers, because it was assumed the solution would come via astronomy. A simple astronomical solution would have been better, frankly, because - if it existed which it doesn’t - it would work even if your chronometer failed or was lost. In the novels, Aubrey developed something using the moons of Jupiter, which would of course be impossible aboard ship. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/63 "2015-12-20T22:35:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In the novels, Aubrey developed something using the moons of Jupiter, which would of course be impossible aboard ship. Which book? I don’t remember him actually developing something, though I remember him _trying_ to do so. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/64 "2015-12-20T22:39:11Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Which book? I don’t remember him actually developing something, though I remember him _trying_ to do so. Heck if I know, I have twenty e-books merged together. I believe that it was in a paper he presented to the Royal Society. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/65 "2015-12-20T22:50:14Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > That timepiece is known as a chronometer (never as a “watch”). Typically, three are needed (so if one goes bad, you know which). > No, watches were and are based on local time, as Noel Prosequi notes. In the old days, this would have been referenced to local noon; nowadays, it would likely be referenced to a chosen time zone. I I remember right the ship’s time is changed at 0200. So if you are on a mid watch it is 3 or 5 hours long. Mid watch 0000-0400. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/66 "2015-12-20T23:08:40Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In the novels, Aubrey developed something using the moons of Jupiter, which would of course be impossible aboard ship. The paths of the moons were predictable, so if you see exactly when one of them disappeared behind the planet, or reappeared, you could look in a table and know exactly what time it was. Good luck doing that on a ship, though. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/67 "2015-12-20T23:33:44Z")
It’s in _The Mauritius Command:_ > [@](#): > > [Capt. Aubrey’s] telescope was a disappointment. It was not that he could not see Jupiter: the planet gleamed in his eyepiece like a banded gold pea. But because of the ship’s motion he could not keep it there long enough or steadily enough to fix the local time of its moons’ eclipses and thus find his longitude. Neither the theory (which was by no means new) nor the telescope was at fault: it was the cleverly weighted cradle slung from the main topgallant mast stay that he had designed to compensate for the pitch and roll that did not answer, in spite of all his alterations; and night after night he swung there cursing and swearing, surrounded by midshipmen armed with clean swabs, whose duty it was to enhance the compensation by thrusting him gently at the word of command. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/68 "2015-12-20T23:36:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Grog was always watered. That’s why its called “grog” and not just “rum”. It also had lime juice, and was often made with small beer instead of water… That could be drinkable. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/69 "2015-12-20T23:57:12Z")
I been duped, I say! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/70 "2015-12-21T02:22:48Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > It’s in _The Mauritius Command:_ Damned “Young Gentlemen”. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/71 "2015-12-21T13:08:00Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > It’s in _The Mauritius Command:_ > [Capt. Aubrey’s] telescope was a disappointment. It was not that he could not see Jupiter: the planet gleamed in his eyepiece like a banded gold pea. But because of the ship’s motion he could not keep it there long enough or steadily enough to fix the local time of its moons’ eclipses and thus find his longitude. Neither the theory (which was by no means new) nor the telescope was at fault: it was the cleverly weighted cradle slung from the main topgallant mast stay that he had designed to compensate for the pitch and roll that did not answer, in spite of all his alterations; and night after night he swung there cursing and swearing, surrounded by midshipmen armed with clean swabs, whose duty it was to enhance the compensation by thrusting him gently at the word of command. And this one of the reasons I believe the Aubrey Maturin novels are the finest works of fiction in th English language. You read this paragraph, and at first think, “Huh, that’s interesting”. Then you start to think about it, and picture it - Jack hanging 80 feet above the deck, in some hammock like contraption, no doubt festooned with double coaked blocks and starboard gumbrils, peering intently through his telescope, occasionally ordering some hapless mid to push him exactly 6 degrees to larboard, _larboard_ I say, with the occasional threat to nail his ears to a plank and set him afloat with a piece of cheese if he goes 1 degree too far. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You would also have to treat folks for venereal disease, operate without anesthetic, and you would have no antibiotics. :dubious: “The operation was a complete success. And I maintain some hope that the patient will survive.” ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/72 "2015-12-21T13:29:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > How is “2 or 3 parts water to one part rum” not _watered?_ Dude, you wrote, “grog was always watered.” If you want to make a pedantic correction, it helps to also be correct. Watered whiskey is diluted whiskey. Watered rum is grog (if you add lemon juice and perhaps sugar). Watered grog is rum further diluted with extra water. To write, as you did “grog was always watered” means that the sailors were always getting 4- or 5- or 6-water grog, which simply isn’t the case, at least in the Aubrey-Mathurin novels. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/73 "2015-12-21T13:38:03Z")
> [@Ispolkom](#): > > Dude, you wrote, “grog was always watered.” If you want to make a pedantic correction, it helps to also be correct. > > Watered whiskey is diluted whiskey. > > Watered rum is grog (if you add lemon juice and perhaps sugar). > > Watered grog is rum further diluted with extra water. > > To write, as you did “grog was always watered” means that the sailors were always getting 4- or 5- or 6-water grog, which simply isn’t the case, at least in the Aubrey-Mathurin novels. Wasn’t the grog was mixed on a daily basis? They didn’t have barrels of grog aboard - they kept barrels of rum in the spirit room (the only room with 2 Marine guards at all times) and water down in the hold, and mixed it before each dinner. So if the rum supply was running short, they could start mixing it weaker and weaker to stretch it out and delay the inevitable mutiny. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/74 "2015-12-21T13:42:32Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > “The operation was a complete success. And I maintain some hope that the patient will survive.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/75 "2015-12-22T00:26:18Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Wasn’t the grog was mixed on a daily basis? They didn’t have barrels of grog aboard - they kept barrels of rum in the spirit room (the only room with 2 Marine guards at all times) and water down in the hold, and mixed it before each dinner. So if the rum supply was running short, they could start mixing it weaker and weaker to stretch it out and delay the inevitable mutiny. Or if the water supply was running short, they could mix less of it with the rum and presumably the sailors would be well-distracted from their thirst. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/76 "2015-12-22T12:40:17Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > No, during the period in which the Aubrey/Maturin novels were set they had only two watches, known as the port and starboard watches. I’ve read a lot of Napoleonic-era naval fiction but don’t recall ever seeing the word “port” to refer to the name of a watch. Am I misremembering or is it possible your terminology is anachronistic? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/77 "2015-12-22T13:51:40Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I’ve read a lot of Napoleonic-era naval fiction but don’t recall ever seeing the word “port” to refer to the name of a watch. Am I misremembering or is it possible your terminology is anachronistic? I believe both port and larboard are used. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/78 "2015-12-22T14:26:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I believe both port and larboard are used. I was curious about this and so looked up the term in the OED. The earliest usage of “port watch” it has is from 1867, which is well after the Aubrey–Maturin era. Interestingly, one of the later citations is from C. S. Forester’s _Hornblower and the Atropos_ – as I’ve read that book, I suppose that answers my question about whether I was misremembering, though I can’t help but wonder whether Forester’s use was also anachronistic. (The word “port”, in the sense of the left side of a ship, was in use as far back as the 16th century, but always as a noun; the adjectival form, including its use in compounds such as “port watch”, is not attested until after the Royal Navy’s 1844 decree banning use of the word “larboard”.) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/79 "2015-12-22T20:18:12Z")
Yep, you are quite right. I thought of this afterward then forgot to correct myself. Larboard, not port. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536/80 "2015-12-23T12:55:48Z")
You usually have 2 shifts per watch, 1st Port, 2nd port, 1st Starboard, 2nd Starboard. Each watch is responsible for manning the ship operations for one day, one shift is on duty whilst the other shift is on relief. Its not 4 hours on, 4 hours off at all, or 4 on 4 off for one day and 24 hours offwatch - rinse and repeat For the watch that is not on duty, they will be on day work doing maintenance etc but always available to be called in for major operational tasks, such as replenishment at sea, or sailing into ports etc. The dogwatches would send off one shift to the first dogwatch meal and the other shift would go on the second dogwatch meal. In normal seastate running that is usually how the relief works. When alongside you are likely to be running with only one shift on duty, the other shift and other watch will be off duty - unless the ship is under sailing orders, in which case one entire watch will remain on board. The shift that is on duty will be broken down further, there will not be many actual watchkeepers - perhaps the main electrical switchboard and the gangway staff will be the only places that are maintained over a full 24 hours. If you are sailing in high risk areas,(defence watch) with a possibility of hostile action, then there will be a full watch on duty at all times - switching 4 hours about - this is only for a short period, for longer periods the watch change will be every 6 hours. It means that the off watch party will have to eat, shit, shower shave and sleep in their 6 hours off, easy enough to get used to - but it does mean that maintenance work tends to be pretty limited [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-old-time-naval-timekeeping-aubrey-maturin/740536.md?page=5)