# Explain the appeal of Bill Hicks (a bit of a frustrated rant) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 26, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046 "2010-07-26T14:35:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/41 "2010-07-27T15:44:00Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > Seems to me he could be pretty juvenile, but was at least angry at the injustice of the world, and the thick veneer of bullshit which disguises this. There are a fair few smug people in this thread who have left behind these cares for a homely self-interest. I don’t find _that_ very funny, either. Where do you get that? I didn’t see any posts that said what you’re claiming. Plenty of people can be angry at the injustice of the world and find Bill Hicks’s expression of such facile and unnecessarily obvious. Presence and righteous indignation aren’t enough to make one a comedy genius - they’ve still got to be _funny_, which is the really difficult part. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/42 "2010-07-27T15:53:28Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > > [@Staggerlee](#): > > > > Seems to me he could be pretty juvenile, but was at least angry at the injustice of the world, and the thick veneer of bullshit which disguises this. There are a fair few smug people in this thread who have left behind these cares for a homely self-interest. I don’t find _that_ very funny, either. > > Where do you get that? I didn’t see any posts that said what you’re claiming. Plenty of people can be angry at the injustice of the world and find Bill Hicks’s expression of such facile and unnecessarily obvious. Presence and righteous indignation aren’t enough to make one a comedy genius - they’ve still got to be _funny_, which is the really difficult part. Rereading the thread, I was a little harsh, maybe the OP’s ‘dark one at the frat party’ rankled me a bit. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/43 "2010-07-27T18:06:18Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Other comics think very highly of him, and I respect their opinions on the matter. Is there any essay/speech/etc. from a comedian explaining why they liked him? I’d be interested in finding out more. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/44 "2010-07-27T18:45:55Z")
As somebody said above, if you can’t see Bill Hick’s merits as a stand-up comedian, It’d be pointless to tell you why I thought he was funny. I will hazard a guess though that those who don’t like him are probably the ones he is taking the piss out of. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/45 "2010-07-27T18:57:03Z")
Nope. Like I said, I agreed with him, and saw him live. Just didn’t think he was funny. ---
**Author:** ![Blut\_Aus\_Nord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Blut\_Aus\_Nord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blut_Aus_Nord)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/46 "2010-07-27T19:00:34Z")
It’s easy to see why he was such a polarizing comedian, but underneath it all, he really was a sharp, intelligent person. [This monologue](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0) is one of my favorites of all time, I recommend you watch it even if you don’t care about him. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/47 "2010-07-27T19:03:44Z")
If you’ve ever heard Patton Oswalt’s bits about comedy in the 80s, how it was a wasteland of hacky celebrity impressions, comedy-magicians, and Gallagher, and how audiences and venues were routinely awful, you’ll have a better context by which to judge Bill Hicks. His act was certainly uneven. It doesn’t help that his best albums were released with that stupid, bullshit music between every track. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/48 "2010-07-27T19:20:46Z")
> [@Chakra Nadmara](#): > > It’s easy to see why he was such a polarizing comedian, but underneath it all, he really was a sharp, intelligent person. [This monologue](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0) is one of my favorites of all time, I recommend you watch it even if you don’t care about him. Why? The part about the “ride” was okay, but the bit about feeding the world with the defense budget is naive in the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/49 "2010-07-27T19:56:29Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > > [@Chakra Nadmara](#): > > > > It’s easy to see why he was such a polarizing comedian, but underneath it all, he really was a sharp, intelligent person. [This monologue](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0) is one of my favorites of all time, I recommend you watch it even if you don’t care about him. > > Why? The part about the “ride” was okay, but the bit about feeding the world with the defense budget is naive in the extreme. Sure is. What a chump. Who would say something like that? > [@Isaiah](#): > > They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/50 "2010-07-27T20:09:49Z")
Right, which is why it’s naive - that passage was written thousands of years ago, and nothing anywhere near to it has ever come close to passing. John Lennon’s “Imagine” wasn’t a brilliant piece of political observation, either. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/51 "2010-07-27T20:13:20Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > > > Other comics think very highly of him, and I respect their opinions on the matter. > > Is there any essay/speech/etc. from a comedian explaining why they liked him? I’d be interested in finding out more. Not finding a ton right now, but I’ve read or heard a bunch of comments over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/52 "2010-07-27T20:14:22Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > > [@Chakra Nadmara](#): > > > > It’s easy to see why he was such a polarizing comedian, but underneath it all, he really was a sharp, intelligent person. [This monologue](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0) is one of my favorites of all time, I recommend you watch it even if you don’t care about him. > > Why? The part about the “ride” was okay, but the bit about feeding the world with the defense budget is naive in the extreme. He’s not suggesting we use the defense budget to feed and clothe the impoverished. He’s asking his audience to imagine a place not governed by fear or aggression, but instead by love and compassion. It’s allegorical. He’s making an allegory. It’s honestly surprising how many people in this thread are taking him at his literal word (or misinterpreting what he’s trying to say). He’s a comedian. Do you not understand how comedy works? In [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziZHoCaZ1Fs), he’s not really, _actually_ suggesting there’s a missile that can pulverize combatants, leaving only their gold fillings, which are then used to fund the war effort. He’s commenting on the character of the U.S. military budget. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/53 "2010-07-27T20:16:14Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > > > > [@Chakra Nadmara](#): > > > > > > It’s easy to see why he was such a polarizing comedian, but underneath it all, he really was a sharp, intelligent person. [This monologue](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0) is one of my favorites of all time, I recommend you watch it even if you don’t care about him. > > > > Why? The part about the “ride” was okay, but the bit about feeding the world with the defense budget is naive in the extreme. > > Sure is. What a chump. Who would say something like that? > > > [@Isaiah](#): > > > > They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. Okay, so he’s naive and unoriginal. On the other hand, I always enjoy a good Bible quote on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/54 "2010-07-27T20:21:20Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > He’s not suggesting we use the defense budget to feed and clothe the impoverished. He’s asking his audience to imagine a place not governed by fear or aggression, but instead by love and compassion. It’s allegorical. He’s making an allegory. I disagree. I think he’s saying we have our priorities messed up. While we’ve certainly used our military for some fucked up reasons lately, I don’t see how spending money on a national defense is avoidable. > [@](#): > > It’s honestly surprising how many people in this thread are taking him at his literal word (or misinterpreting what he’s trying to say). I don’t see many people doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/55 "2010-07-27T20:38:25Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > > [@Tarwater](#): > > > > He’s not suggesting we use the defense budget to feed and clothe the impoverished. He’s asking his audience to imagine a place not governed by fear or aggression, but instead by love and compassion. It’s allegorical. He’s making an allegory. > > I disagree. I think he’s saying we have our priorities messed up. While we’ve certainly used our military for some fucked up reasons lately, I don’t see how spending money on a national defense is avoidable. I agree with you that he’s saying we have our priorities confused, but he’s not honestly suggesting the entire defense budget can be done away with. You’re still literalizing his routine. He’s using allegory as a vehicle to criticize how society manages itself. None of it should be taken literally. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/56 "2010-07-27T20:42:16Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > > > > [@Tarwater](#): > > > > > > He’s not suggesting we use the defense budget to feed and clothe the impoverished. He’s asking his audience to imagine a place not governed by fear or aggression, but instead by love and compassion. It’s allegorical. He’s making an allegory. > > > > I disagree. I think he’s saying we have our priorities messed up. While we’ve certainly used our military for some fucked up reasons lately, I don’t see how spending money on a national defense is avoidable. > > I agree with you that he’s saying we have our priorities confused, but he’s not honestly suggesting the entire defense budget can be done away with. You’re still literalizing his routine. He’s using allegory as a vehicle to criticize how society manages itself. None of it should be taken literally. I’m not saying it should be taken literally. I’m saying that “Wouldn’t a world without bad guys be great?” is not a sentiment I would expect from someone who has been described as a genius. It’s something I’d expect to hear from a teenager. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/57 "2010-07-27T20:57:52Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’m not saying it should be taken literally. I’m saying that “Wouldn’t a world without bad guys be great?” is not a sentiment I would expect from someone who has been described as a genius. It’s something I’d expect to hear from a teenager. Except that isn’t what Bill was saying. What he was saying was “maybe stuff we do could be changed, and then stuff we have would be different. We’d all like a world without bad guys, so maybe we should stop doing stuff that makes people angry at us (which makes them do stuff that makes us call them “bad guys”) and/or exposes us as greedy immoral hypocrites (aka “bad guys”)”. To reduce his sentiments to sophomoric declarations takes some serious ignoring of large parts of Bill Hick’s verbiage. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/58 "2010-07-27T21:14:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > > > I’m not saying it should be taken literally. I’m saying that “Wouldn’t a world without bad guys be great?” is not a sentiment I would expect from someone who has been described as a genius. It’s something I’d expect to hear from a teenager. > > Except that isn’t what Bill was saying. What he was saying was “maybe stuff we do could be changed, and then stuff we have would be different. We’d all like a world without bad guys, so maybe we should stop doing stuff that makes people angry at us (which makes them do stuff that makes us call them “bad guys”) and/or exposes us as greedy immoral hypocrites (aka “bad guys”)”. > > To reduce his sentiments to sophomoric declarations takes some serious ignoring of large parts of Bill Hick’s verbiage. Oh, nonsense. Nothing he said in that clip indicated anything of the sort. That’s all you. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/59 "2010-07-27T21:22:08Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > > > I’m not saying it should be taken literally. I’m saying that “Wouldn’t a world without bad guys be great?” is not a sentiment I would expect from someone who has been described as a genius. It’s something I’d expect to hear from a teenager. > > Except that isn’t what Bill was saying. What he was saying was “maybe stuff we do could be changed, and then stuff we have would be different. We’d all like a world without bad guys, so maybe we should stop doing stuff that makes people angry at us (which makes them do stuff that makes us call them “bad guys”) and/or exposes us as greedy immoral hypocrites (aka “bad guys”)”. > > To reduce his sentiments to sophomoric declarations takes some serious ignoring of large parts of Bill Hick’s verbiage. To be fair, you can only “read into” Hicks’ routines so far. I’m certain if he’d fully articulated the basis for any of his bits, he would’ve developed them beyond any simplistic interpretation. But he didn’t (as far as I know) because they were _comedy_ routines. I interpret the “life’s just a ride” bit pretty much the way you do\*, but that’s not because it’s clear from the verbiage. \*[sub]If we used the money we spend “protecting” ourselves on making life better for the rest of the planet, maybe we wouldn’t need so much protection…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046/60 "2010-07-27T21:43:20Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > It’s honestly surprising how many people in this thread are taking him at his literal word (or misinterpreting what he’s trying to say). He’s a comedian. Do you not understand how comedy works? I think that might be part of the problem. I am not real familiar with his work, but I watched the bit about how marketers should kill themselves, and he kept saying over and over that it was not a joke, that he was serious, and that there was no joke coming. So either he meant it, in which case he is being an asshole, or he didn’t, in which case he is denying the only reason I will pay attention to him. Comedians have to make me laugh, or I am not interested. If they can make me think as well, that’s great, but they have to make me laugh first. They have to _earn_ my attention. It’s not enough that they claim to have deep insights about stuff - jokes are the bribe they have to pay me to get me to listen to their insights. And his insights, as has been mentioned, are not terribly profound. Not every bit has to start off “two guys walk into a bar”, but they can’t start off “kill yourself” or “the world is fucked up and I hate it” either, unless you can make it okay for me to sit thru with some kind of entertainment. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-appeal-of-bill-hicks-a-bit-of-a-frustrated-rant/548046.md?page=4)