# Explain the British Commonwealth, please. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 29, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712 "2006-08-29T21:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/1 "2006-08-29T21:06:36Z")
Preferably using small words and perhaps some colorful diagrams. Or, just read what I know and correct me where I’m wrong and fill in the gaps. The British commonwealth is a big grouping of nations which were at one point under the control of the British Empire. They are now completely independent legislatively. But somehow they retain their status as “commonwealth” countries (Australia, Canada, South Africa, a boatload of others). As far as I can see, the reasons for doing so are: \*Citizens of commonwealth countries can very easily get visas to live and work in the UK, which has an economic benefit for developing nations (eg, South Africa). That’s all I’ve got. Then there are “realm” nations, which are defined (according to Wikipedia, at least) as nations that give the British queen an extra title (eg, she’s not just the queen of England, but also of Canada). So, beyond losing some of your workforce, what’s the benefit to being a Commonwealth country? Also: Is it voluntary? Could, say, Australia say, “Hey, I don’t want to be part of this commonwealth thing anymore”, and stop being Commonwealth? Could a random country (say, Sweden) join the Commonwealth? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/2 "2006-08-29T21:14:22Z")
Political solidarity (within limits). Preferential trading (within limits). The big countries benefit from the former, the smaller from the latter - though of course indirectly, and theoretically, they benefit from the former, given its focus on human rights and democracy. I don’t know the rules, but think a random country could in fact join, and there has definitely been speculation, albeit idle, on previously departed countries rejoining. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/3 "2006-08-29T21:15:41Z")
The Commonwealth doesn’t really have any great political importance. The preferential status e.g. regarding visas and travel is a recognition that these countries have shared histories, shared backgrounds, and so on. There’s only one case of a country joining the Commonwealth - Mozambique. Countries have left it, Ireland being a very obvious case. And Aussie dopers might want to weigh in with the less-than-universal appreciation of the role of Queen Liz in their country’s official status. Commonwealth Realms are, by definition, a subset of Commonwealth nations. Whether a nation could leave the Commonwealth yet retain their recognition of their Queen Elizabeth is, I presume, something that could only be settled by precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/4 "2006-08-29T21:27:34Z")
Mozambique joined the Commonwealth a few years ago despite having never been a British colony. So yes, a random country could join. And as has been pointed out above, Ireland left, in 1949 I think. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/5 "2006-08-29T21:34:57Z")
I’m hoping Canada ditches all monarchist trappings in my lifetime, but I don’t see the need to leave the Commonwealth in the process. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/6 "2006-08-29T21:37:11Z")
[Commonwealth of Nations - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations) is a good source for other countries which have been expelled for periods, otherwise had gaps in their membership, and in the case of Hong Kong, errrm, disappearing! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/7 "2006-08-29T22:02:05Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] \*Citizens of commonwealth countries can very easily get visas to live and work in the UK, which has an economic benefit for developing nations (eg, South Africa). [/QUOTE] That hasn’t been true for a long time. As a Dutch Canadian, I needed my Dutch passport to get a visa to work in the UK back in 1975. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/8 "2006-08-29T22:09:08Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] Citizens of commonwealth countries can very easily get visas to live and work in the UK, which has an economic benefit for developing nations (eg, South Africa). [/QUOTE] I think the UK gives preference nowadays to citizens of other EU countries rather than Commonwealth citizens. That’s certainly the impression one gets when waiting in the queue at Heathrow for passport control. EU citizens get priority. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/9 "2006-08-29T22:10:34Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] That hasn’t been true for a long time. As a Dutch Canadian, I needed my Dutch passport to get a visa to work in the UK back in 1975. [/QUOTE] Things like the Working Holiday visa are how thousands (millions?) of Aussies, South Africans and Kiwis end up here. Not so many Canadians, so maybe nobody told them 😛 (Right of Abode, however, depends on parental origin as well as nationality) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/10 "2006-08-29T22:15:02Z")
[QUOTE=Cunctator] I think the UK gives preference nowadays to citizens of other EU countries rather than Commonwealth citizens. That’s certainly the impression one gets when waiting in the queue at Heathrow for passport control. EU citizens get priority. [/QUOTE] It’s not priority, it’s just they’re treated differently 😉 One of the policies of the EU is free movement of citizens, and of equality wherever possible including in dealing with immigration bureaucracy, which is why you don’t see a ‘British’ (or ‘French’ or ‘Polish’) channel at immigration, but just one for all EU passport holders. (And dont’ forget that we’re an exception in not being in the Schengen area, where such documents are irrelevant) Anyway, I’m sure Aussie customs are capable of being nicer to returning countrymen than to dirty foreigners, too 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/11 "2006-08-29T22:47:44Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] It’s not priority, it’s just they’re treated differently 😉 [/quote] Whatever. It certainly feels like priority when, after a 26 hour flight, you’re waiting in the queue for a further 90 minutes to be served by the single non-EU passport officer and watching the 10 EU passport officers twiddling their thumbs. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Anyway, I’m sure Aussie customs are capable of being nicer to returning countrymen than to dirty foreigners, too 😛 Of course. They can make an art form of it. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/12 "2006-08-29T22:51:46Z")
[QUOTE=Cunctator] Whatever. It certainly feels like priority when, after a 26 hour flight, you’re waiting in the queue for a further 90 minutes to be served by the single non-EU passport officer and watching the 10 EU passport officers twiddling their thumbs. 🙂 [/QUOTE] I’m presuming you’ve been to America? In which case we can join hands and sing the praises of our efficient immigration systems ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/13 "2006-08-29T22:53:16Z")
Virginia Massachusetts Pennsylvania Kentucky [are commonwealths, not states.](http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/usa_can/states/cwealth.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/14 "2006-08-29T22:56:56Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] I’m presuming you’ve been to America? In which case we can join hands and sing the praises of our efficient immigration systems [/QUOTE] Oh God. Don’t get me started on the US Immigration people. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/15 "2006-08-29T23:20:31Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] And Aussie dopers might want to weigh in with the less-than-universal appreciation of the role of Queen Liz in their country’s official status. [/QUOTE] Without going into detail on the relationship of the Queen to Australia (it’s been discussed in many threads), it’s an almost certainty that if Australia eventually becomes a republic, it would choose to remain in the Commonwealth. And yes, any country can apply to join, as far as I know. It’s more of an historical fraternity of nations rather than “Empire Lite”. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/16 "2006-08-29T23:58:45Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] The British commonwealth is a big grouping of nations which were at one point under the control of the British Empire. [/QUOTE] By the way, it’s not called the _ **British** _ Commonwealth any more. Just the Commonwealth: [link](http://www.thecommonwealth.org/subhomepage/151236/) ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/17 "2006-08-30T00:20:01Z")
[QUOTE=Will Repair] Virginia Massachusetts Pennsylvania Kentucky [are commonwealths, not states.](http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/usa_can/states/cwealth.htm) [/QUOTE] And Australia’s long name is “The Commonwealth of Australia”, which is nothing to do with the other Commonwealth, although we’re in that too. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/18 "2006-08-30T04:14:15Z")
Sung to the tune of _Widdecome Fair_ We’d like to sing you a commonwealth song, All-along, down-along, round-along, lee, There isn’t much of it, it won’t take us long, Without Eire, South Africa, and probably India, Tanzania, Singapore, Old Southern Rhodesia and all, old Southern Rhodesia and all. The commonwealth hasn’t much meaning today, All-about, turn-about, round-about, lee, Except for the few who’re still willing to play, Like Australia, New Zealand and Canada: Well, that’s about the lot, really. And that doesn’t include Montreal, That doesn’t include Montreal… By Flanders & Swann (Mods, that’s a sample of the song, not all of it) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/19 "2006-08-30T04:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] But somehow they retain their status as “commonwealth” countries (Australia, Canada, South Africa, a boatload of others). [/quote] There’s no mystery to it - it’s just a voluntary association of nations. Most of the nations that were formerly in the British Empire have chosen to remain in the Commonwealth but some (Republic of Ireland, Burma) have chosen not to. It’s a decision each country makes for itself. > [@](#): > > As far as I can see, the reasons for doing so are:\*Citizens of commonwealth countries can very easily get visas to live and work in the UK, which has an economic benefit for developing nations (eg, South Africa). I don’t know if this is accurate - I don’t think Canadians, for instance, have an automatic leg up for work visas in the U.K. In any event, that’s not the major reason for staying in the Commonwealth. The principles that the Commonwealth operates on are set out in various [Declarations](http://www.thecommonwealth.org/Internal/20723/key_declarations/), such as the Harare Declaration: [QUOTE=Secretariat of the Commonwealth] This landmark agreement set the Commonwealth on a new course: that of promoting democracy and good governance, human rights and the rule of law, gender equality and sustainable economic and social development. [/QUOTE] (Since the Commonwealth owes much of its history to Britain, it shouldn’t come as any surprise to anyone that there’s no formal constitution for the Commonwealth. 🙂 The various Declarations set out the guiding principles for the Commonwealth.) > [@](#): > > Then there are “realm” nations, which are defined (according to Wikipedia, at least) as nations that give the British queen an extra title (eg, she’s not just the queen of England, but also of Canada). It’s not just an extra title - Her Majesty is part of the constitutional structure of Canada and other realms. She is the head of state of Canada, and a constitutent part of the federal Parliament and each provincial Legislature - Royal Assent is the final step in the enactment of a federal or provincial law. For more info on the Commonwealth, you could look at their [web-page](http://www.thecommonwealth.org/subhomepage/151236/commonwealth/) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/20 "2006-08-30T04:38:23Z")
and here’s Her Majesty’s own web-page, explaining her role in the Commonwealth: [The Queen and the Commonwealth](http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page4678.asp) (which also explains that in Maori, her title translates as "The Great White Heron.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712.md?page=2)