# Explain the British Commonwealth, please. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 29, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712 "2006-08-29T21:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/21 "2006-08-30T05:00:10Z")
Note that if you want a government job in a state of the realm, you’ll generally have to swear an oath of allegiance to Her Majesty. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/22 "2006-08-30T05:28:57Z")
[QUOTE=Will Repair] Virginia Massachusetts Pennsylvania Kentucky [are commonwealths, not states.](http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/usa_can/states/cwealth.htm) [/QUOTE] Wrong. Check the Constitution. They are states. Specifically, they are states with a republican (form, not party) government. BTW, isn’t Elizabeth the Queen of the United Kingdom, not the Queen of England? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/23 "2006-08-30T09:46:03Z")
Most of what I was going to say has already been covered, but I will add an obligatory [Wikipedia Link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations). ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/24 "2006-08-30T10:04:03Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] I don’t know if this is accurate - I don’t think Canadians, for instance, have an automatic leg up for work visas in the U.K. [/quote] Commonwealth citizens can work without a work permit, under a UK Ancestory visa, provided they had at least one British-born grandparent. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/25 "2006-08-30T10:06:48Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Wrong. Check the Constitution. They are states. Specifically, they are states with a republican (form, not party) government. [/quote] [http://www.kdla.ky.gov/resources/KYCommonwealth.htm](http://www.kdla.ky.gov/resources/KYCommonwealth.htm) [http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/pahist/symbols.asp?secid=31](http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/pahist/symbols.asp?secid=31) [http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cis/cismaf/mf1a.htm](http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cis/cismaf/mf1a.htm) > [@](#): > > BTW, isn’t Elizabeth the Queen of the United Kingdom, not the Queen of England? Yep. [List of titles and honours of Elizabeth II - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_titles_and_honours_of_Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/26 "2006-08-30T12:16:06Z")
The Master speaks: [Why is Virginia (and MA and PA and KY0 called a Commonwealth?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_307.html) : > [@](#): > > Legally the old-style commonwealths are indistinguishable from states, and from the standpoint of terminological coolness you’ve got states beat by a mile. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/27 "2006-08-30T12:18:06Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Commonwealth citizens can work without a work permit, under a UK Ancestory visa, provided they had at least one British-born grandparent. [/QUOTE] Interesting - thanks for this - did not know that. (However, considering how few Canadian citizens could likely meet this test nowadays, it’s not likely to be the primary reason for staying in the Commonwealth.) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/28 "2006-08-30T13:47:59Z")
Doesn’t matter what they call themselves–the Constitution calls them States & that’s what counts. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/29 "2006-08-30T13:53:38Z")
Loyalty to a person is a less complicated phenomenon than loyalty to an abstraction. God save the Queen. Support protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. See? Tris ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/30 "2006-08-30T13:55:59Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] Interesting - thanks for this - did not know that. (However, considering how few Canadian citizens could likely meet this test nowadays, it’s not likely to be the primary reason for staying in the Commonwealth.) [/QUOTE] True - I think it’s much more commonly used by Aussies. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/31 "2006-08-30T14:05:32Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] True - I think it’s much more commonly used by Aussies. [/QUOTE] And by all accounts, we do it _very_ commonly. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dottygumdrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Dottygumdrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dottygumdrop)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/32 "2006-08-30T19:22:48Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] It’s not priority, it’s just they’re treated differently 😉 One of the policies of the EU is free movement of citizens, and of equality wherever possible including in dealing with immigration bureaucracy, which is why you don’t see a ‘British’ (or ‘French’ or ‘Polish’) channel at immigration, but just one for all EU passport holders. (And dont’ forget that we’re an exception in not being in the Schengen area, where such documents are irrelevant) Anyway, I’m sure Aussie customs are capable of being nicer to returning countrymen than to dirty foreigners, too 😛 [/QUOTE] Hmmph! Tell me that again next time I spend 90 minutes standing in the “Australian Passports Only” queue behind all the bloody immigrants who think that marking “permanent migrant” on the landing card entitles them to jam up the “fast track citizens” line! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/33 "2006-08-30T19:32:45Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] And by all accounts, we do it _very_ commonly. 😃 [/QUOTE] Yeah, bloody well taking all our low-paid shite-hours bar work, clogging up all the rat-infested damp hovels in Earls Court…send 'em home, that’s what I say ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/34 "2006-08-30T19:35:40Z")
[QUOTE=Will Repair] Virginia Massachusetts Pennsylvania Kentucky [are commonwealths, not states.](http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/usa_can/states/cwealth.htm) [/QUOTE] This is minutia. It has absolutely no legal or practical significance whatsoever. They use “commonwealth” in their names, but as a matter of law, they are states. You can even “mislabel” official documents as, for example, “State of Pennsylvania,” and no one will blink twice. The Commonwealth of Virginia has a Virginia **State** Corporation Commission and a Virginia **State** University and a Virginia Polytechnic Institute and **State** University. Why isn’t it the Virginia Commonwealth Corporation Commission? Because nobody cares. Because the “commonwealth” in “Commonwealth of Virginia” is an inconsequential alternative to the word “state.” ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/35 "2006-08-30T19:45:02Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] Because the “commonwealth” in “Commonwealth of Virginia” is an inconsequential alternative to the word “state.” [/QUOTE] Or is it just that ‘state’ is an inconsequential alternative to the word ‘commonwealth’? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/36 "2006-08-30T19:54:27Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Or is it just that ‘state’ is an inconsequential alternative to the word ‘commonwealth’? [/QUOTE] Ask the U.S. Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/37 "2006-08-30T20:03:54Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] Ask the U.S. Constitution. [/QUOTE] Which describes three commonwealths as ‘states’, yes…which proves what? That the constitution overrules all self-definition within the laws of Massachusetts, Virginia and Pennsylvania? ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712/38 "2006-08-31T00:06:32Z")
The US Constitution calls the federated states that make up the US “states”. The US Constitution is the supreme law of the US, no other law is allowed to contradict it. Some of the federated states in the US call themselves “commonwealths”. So it follows that “commonwealth” is simply a synonym of “state”. The US Constitution does not define what a commonwealth is, so it must be this word that is the inconsequential alternative. Of course, all this doesn’t have that much relevance, since equivalence between two concepts is a reflexive property. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-british-commonwealth-please/370712.md?page=1)