# Explain the Death Panels thing to me **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2010, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099 "2010-01-23T10:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/61 "2010-01-24T04:57:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And yet the current proposal is dead on arrival. What do the politicians know that you don’t? They know where the money comes from to fund their campaigns? From large corporations and PACS? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/62 "2010-01-24T05:05:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > We don’t want her to go away. We want her to be the GOP nominee for President in 2012. Don’t spook her. . I’m sure, but do you really want to risk it? If she wins in 2012, you have to perform sepukku. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/63 "2010-01-24T05:12:54Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > This is part of my recent thinking about whether US conservatives have any morals. Even if you think that UHC or the proposed bill are a bad idea, shouldn’t you be repulsed by your side using such sleazy tactics? Instead, conservative are cackling with delight that Palin found such a good way to oppose UHC and want to reward her with a chance to run for President. A news organization has hired her, knowing that she lied. > > What has happened to the America I grew up in? I agree with this sentiment. But I have seen equally blatant lies from the folks that seek to ban or restrict firearms. And I have seen people who think banning guns is a good idea treat these lies, when they even accept that lies have been told, as understandable because the cause is such a good one. I don’t believe that the willingness to lie to advance a cause is restricted to the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/64 "2010-01-24T05:28:52Z")
When Bush was governor of Texas, he brought death panels to Texas. Have a boo at [section 166.046 of the state’s Health and Safety Code](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/HS/htm/HS.166.htm#166.046). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/65 "2010-01-24T05:30:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And yet the current proposal is dead on arrival. What do the politicians know that you don’t? Where their campaign contributions come from. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/66 "2010-01-24T07:58:47Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Really? I did not know that. > > I had heard that once you had insurance, there were no limits on your health care expenses. If you were sick, the insurance company would look after you no matter what, with no limit to your care at all. > > Otherwise, why would people even bring up “rationing” with UHC examples? > > \ Thanks for the tag — I was _that_ close to taking your post seriously. For those who may not be familiar with the subject, most (if not all) health insurance policies have limits on what the insurer will pay out. This is an especially sore issue with me because my younger daughter used approximately a quarter of hers in a couple of months due to ulcerative colitis. In addition to lifetime maximums, there are limits on specific procedures such as transplants which can wreak especial havoc. A judge my brother-in-law worked for needed a liver transplant thanks to a Mexican tattoo acquired during his military days. When the first transplant failed, he was denied another; but the people who worked in his court pooled their benefits and got it covered. Unfortunately, that one failed too and he died in his early 50s — but if it had been up to the insurance company, he would have died a couple of years earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/67 "2010-01-24T08:17:23Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I’m sure, but do you really want to risk it? There’s no risk. > [@](#): > > If she wins in 2012, you have to perform sepukku. She has no more chance of being elected President than I do. 70% of voters do not think she’s qualified. As popular as she is within a certain narrow spectrum, she’s poison outside of it, and an overwhelming majority of voters are outside of it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/68 "2010-01-24T08:24:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Where their campaign contributions come from. The only thing that changed in the last week was Massachusetts in what can only be described as a Verizon commercial. Can you here us NOW. There will be no ramming of a bill where the CNN cameras don’t shine. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/69 "2010-01-24T08:38:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s not really the question. We’re working toward full coverage. The how of it is the question. > > We could tax everyone and let the payments be deducted toward basic insurance and HSA’s. That way we can tailor it to age so younger people can leverage good health against a deductible and bank the HSA money toward future events. It wouldn’t limit people from buying more insurance. And where is the working poor, who are just barely making rent and food payments, going to come up with enough money for HSAs? In your world, no doubt, everyone worth anything makes $70K a year or more. If the Republicans proposed government funded HSAs and catastrophic insurance, we might have something - but it would no doubt cost tax money, and from the lack of response to my question it appears that you people would rather see those poor working trash die than raise your tax bill. But a simple, on-topic, question. Do you admit that Sarah Palin lied about “death panels.” If you want ro respond like **Bricker** did, not directly admitting it but saying the left lies in some odd way about guns, that will be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/70 "2010-01-24T17:56:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree with this sentiment. > > But I have seen equally blatant lies from the folks that seek to ban or restrict firearms. And I have seen people who think banning guns is a good idea treat these lies, when they even accept that lies have been told, as understandable because the cause is such a good one. > > I don’t believe that the willingness to lie to advance a cause is restricted to the Republicans. Blue Team lied about something once. So that means Red Team can lie all they want with impunity!! Go RED TEAM GO! ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/71 "2010-01-24T18:08:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The only thing that changed in the last week was Massachusetts in what can only be described as a Verizon commercial. Can you here us NOW. > > There will be no ramming of a bill where the CNN cameras don’t shine. Clearly people in Massachusetts don’t support[health care reform](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_reform). Let’s say that the conservatives are right, and that smaller govt is better, and that other conservative values are better. Wouldn’t we expect that the states that are the most conservative would have better results than the more liberal ones? But no, the red states lag in almost every measure of “goodness” from income to health to divorce rates. And that despite the fact that blue states subsidize the red states by paying out more in Federal taxes than they receive back in spending. How about at the Federal level? We’d expect that jobs would increase and the deficit would fall under Republicans. But no, not that either. But it’s nice you guys have faith. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/72 "2010-01-24T18:09:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t believe that the willingness to lie to advance a cause is restricted to the Republicans. But they have made it an art form. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/73 "2010-01-24T18:36:46Z")
> [@Richie\_Incognito](#): > > If the government was paying for your health care and you were terminally ill, they would have an incentive for wanting you to die as soon as possible. If a for-profit corporation was paying for your health care and you were terminally ill, they would have an incentive for wanting you to die as soon as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/74 "2010-01-24T21:17:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Richie Incognito > If the government was paying for your health care and you were terminally ill, they would have an incentive for wanting you to die as soon as possible. > [@Batfish](#): > > If a for-profit corporation was paying for your health care and you were terminally ill, they would have an incentive for wanting you to die as soon as possible. Indeed **Batfish**. Which scenario seems more likely: 1. A committee of doctors from the government and doctors from a medical association decides together to screw over a patient in order to save money for the government. This decision becomes public, unless the committee conspires to keep it out of the public domain illegally. Plus, this decision to deny care must apply to EVERYONE EQUALLY, including those same doctors’ families and the politician’s families. 2. A single claims adjustor with no medical training from a private company denies care or cancels the policy of a single patient in order to increase his bonus. Nobody finds out about this because the company is private. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/75 "2010-01-24T22:15:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And that changed how in the last 2 weeks? So you think that an election held in a state that already has enacted more comprehensive health care reform and therefore would get nothing from the Federal plan at all is representative of the national sentiment? It looks to me less like “We don’t want it” and more like “We got ours, screw you!” to me. Or, to be more charitable, maybe since national HRC will not really do much for them, they voted on other issues. The problem is that the Republicans goal is not really to enact the best health care reform as they see it. Their goal is to regain a majority by showing the nation that Democrats are both evil (they want to kill your baby) and incompetent (they failed in everything the tried). Check out this [Daily Show](http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-january-21-2010/political-shift-in-d-c-) clip that illustrates the two memes they are working. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/76 "2010-01-24T22:52:12Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Blue Team lied about something once. So that means Red Team can lie all they want with impunity!! > Go RED TEAM GO! So…if we look through your posting history, we won’t find anything along the lines of “Red Team spent a lot of money on a war, so that means Blue Team can spend several times that in far less time with impunity,” right? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/77 "2010-01-24T23:08:18Z")
Why does “end of life counseling” need a separate classification? Can’t I talk to my doctor during a normal office visit? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/78 "2010-01-24T23:12:20Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > So…if we look through your posting history, we won’t find anything along the lines of “Red Team spent a lot of money on a war, so that means Blue Team can spend several times that in far less time with impunity,” right? [Tangent]You wanna tell me exactly what was spent with impunity? The TARP? Most of that’s back and it was started under Bush. The Auto Bailout? We saved hundreds of thousands of jobs with that. The HCR bill? It is paid for and will actually save us money in the long run. The Stimulus? The vast majority of economists that it was necessary, and it helped keep us from falling into a depression. What is all the spending that is pissing you off here? [/tangent] Also, you’re framing your question wrong in any case. Saying that Republicans spent X billions on a useless war illustrates that they are completely hypocritical when they get upset at spending X on something that actually is useful. If Republicans are bitching about costs now, they have little credibility because they fucking were catapulting money out the window before. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/79 "2010-01-24T23:51:06Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > The problem is that the Republicans goal is not really to enact the best health care reform as they see it. Their goal is to regain a majority by showing the nation that Democrats are both evil (they want to kill your baby) and incompetent (they failed in everything the tried). Check out this [Daily Show](http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-january-21-2010/political-shift-in-d-c-) clip that illustrates the two memes they are working. Are you sure that’s the right clip? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/80 "2010-01-25T00:08:26Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Why does “end of life counseling” need a separate classification? Can’t I talk to my doctor during a normal office visit? When your doctor bills out for an hour the insurance companies expect him to list what he did during that hour. If he noted something like ‘consulted patient on end of life issues’ the insurance company may say that is not covered. The provision that people went all crazy with and spread lies about was simply ensure the doctor would be paid for that time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099.md?page=5)