# Explain the Death Panels thing to me **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2010, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099 "2010-01-23T10:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/81 "2010-01-25T00:26:54Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > So…if we look through your posting history, we won’t find anything along the lines of “Red Team spent a lot of money on a war, so that means Blue Team can spend several times that in far less time with impunity,” right? If you can find a post of mine that opines that the Democratic party should spend tax dollars on something BECAUSE the Republicans spent tax dollars on a war… go ahead and quote it. Otherwise, please refrain from accusing me of something I did not do. Hint; I do not cheer for the Red Team or the Blue Team. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/82 "2010-01-25T01:20:31Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Why does “end of life counseling” need a separate classification? Can’t I talk to my doctor during a normal office visit? To charge insurance you need to have a diagnostic code; e.g., X-Ray, sprained wrist, flu shot, etc. This authorized the doctor to charge for counseling. It’s not the sort of thing you just want to do at the end of a regular visit. “Say, Doc, before you go, can you put me down for DNR”? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/83 "2010-01-25T01:22:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Indeed **Batfish**. > > Which scenario seems more likely: > > 1. A committee of doctors from the government and doctors from a medical association decides together to screw over a patient in order to save money for the government. This decision becomes public, unless the committee conspires to keep it out of the public domain illegally. Plus, this decision to deny care must apply to EVERYONE EQUALLY, including those same doctors’ families and the politician’s families. > > 2. A single claims adjustor with no medical training from a private company denies care or cancels the policy of a single patient in order to increase his bonus. Nobody finds out about this because the company is private. This is a trick question, right? Clearly it’s the folks with the Black Helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/84 "2010-01-25T01:32:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There’s no risk. > > She has no more chance of being elected President than I do. 70% of voters do not think she’s qualified. As popular as she is within a certain narrow spectrum, she’s poison outside of it, and an overwhelming majority of voters are outside of it. Does that mean no sepukku? ---
**Author:** ![doubled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@doubled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doubled)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/85 "2010-01-25T03:06:26Z")
> [@Richie\_Incognito](#): > > If the government was paying for your health care and you were terminally ill, they would have an incentive for wanting you to die as soon as possible. > > This scares people. The Republicans took the death panel thing too far (like usual), but I do think it was a legitimate issue for discussion. But how is that any different than what private health insurance companies already do today? Wouldn’t a not-for-profit government run system (where no one is getting a bonus based on how much money they saved) have less incentive for you to die early than a for-profit private health insurance system (where the CEO is incentivized to do everything he can to cut expenses, including cut off sick patients early)? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/86 "2010-01-25T03:11:23Z")
I am on Medicare. the government has an interest in keeping me healthy. They send me Emails to tell me what tests and preventatives I am eligible for. I never got a letter or email from an insurance company suggesting I might want to take a new test. That would be spending money now to save money in the future. Corporations don’t think ahead. They don’t make long term plans. They do not invest todays money in long time future programs. It takes away from todays profit statement and may cut bonuses a little. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/87 "2010-01-25T03:57:22Z")
> [@doubled](#): > > But how is that any different than what private health insurance companies already do today? Wouldn’t a not-for-profit government run system (where no one is getting a bonus based on how much money they saved) have less incentive for you to die early than a for-profit private health insurance system (where the CEO is incentivized to do everything he can to cut expenses, including cut off sick patients early)? Not only are they incentivized, they have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to pay out as little as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/88 "2010-01-25T04:07:24Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Does that mean no sepukku? Why would I commit seppuku? She’s the one who sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/89 "2010-01-25T07:44:58Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Corporations don’t think ahead. They don’t make long term plans. They do not invest todays money in long time future programs. It takes away from todays profit statement and may cut bonuses a little. That’s not true. Corporations certainly have long term plans. Do you think they can screw the public so effectively on a spur of the moment basis?🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/90 "2010-01-25T08:52:45Z")
One thing needs to be made clear. If I understand correctly, the Health Care Law that is proposed in Congress would allow for end of life counselling with your doctor more than one time in your life. You wouldn’t have to wait until you were near death for this counselling. I think that it would be wise of any adult who has very firm ideas of what she or he wants near the end of life to discuss this with your doctor and your family and put it into writing. Ask your doctor for a Living Will. If the choice is between letting me live a little longer but being in terrible pain and having something for pain that might speed along my death by a few days or few weeks, I would opt for the painkiller. This is just part of the sort of thing that adults should talk about with their loved ones and their doctor. The Bill in Congress would pay your doctor for her or his time in counselling you. You could probably talk with her or him about it now, but if it’s done in a regular office visit, it might be rather hurried. I don’t know if any insurance covers it now. To the best of my knowledge, “Death Panel” is just a recently made-up name to try to instill fear into people. Why would they do that? Why would they deliberately try to mislead you? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/91 "2010-01-25T12:09:15Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Blue Team lied about something once. So that means Red Team can lie all they want with impunity!! > Go RED TEAM GO! Well at least you acnowledge that the Blues lie. There was a thread a few weeks ago about how only Reds lie… or was it that they only lie about people and Blues tell different lies… for the good of the people. I get confused easily. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/92 "2010-01-25T13:22:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Indeed **Batfish**. > > Which scenario seems more likely: > > 1. A committee of doctors from the government and doctors from a medical association decides together to screw over a patient in order to save money for the government. This decision becomes public, unless the committee conspires to keep it out of the public domain illegally. Plus, this decision to deny care must apply to EVERYONE EQUALLY, including those same doctors’ families and the politician’s families. > > 2. A single claims adjustor with no medical training from a private company denies care or cancels the policy of a single patient in order to increase his bonus. Nobody finds out about this because the company is private. Stolen for facebookization. (With anonymous credit… I just prefer to keep my online presences separate for the most part, hope you don’t mind!) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/93 "2010-01-25T15:30:33Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Well at least you acnowledge that the Blues lie. There was a thread a few weeks ago about how only Reds lie… or was it that they only lie about people and Blues tell different lies… for the good of the people. I get confused easily. Yes, Blue Team certainly lies as well. They all lie. Recently though, the lies of the Red Team have been particularly egregious. “Death Panels?” I mean, come on! People should just laugh out loud at this [QUOTE=Frylock] Stolen for facebookization. (With anonymous credit… I just prefer to keep my online presences separate for the most part, hope you don’t mind!) [/QUOTE] Not at all! Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/94 "2010-01-25T15:57:13Z")
Had does such an obviously false and plainly laughable construct such as ‘death panels’ get past the first hour of media sunlight? It’s so superficially stupid, it has no right to reach as far as the first news bulliten, and wouldn’t in most countries - if not all beyond the USA. And yet it was debated as if it made some kind of sense. That’s the shame in it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/95 "2010-01-25T16:49:32Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Had does such an obviously false and plainly laughable construct such as ‘death panels’ get past the first hour of media sunlight? It’s so superficially stupid, it has no right to reach as far as the first news bulliten, and wouldn’t in most countries - if not all beyond the USA. > > And yet it was debated as if it made some kind of sense. That’s the shame in it. Because the story is who is saying it. This didn’t see much light when Betsy McCaughey started it but took off when Sarah Palin repeated it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/96 "2010-01-25T17:45:22Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > One thing needs to be made clear. If I understand correctly, the Health Care Law that is proposed in Congress would allow for end of life counselling with your doctor more than one time in your life. You wouldn’t have to wait until you were near death for this counselling. It is not in the bill anymore. I got withdrawn when that lying pile of moose dung and her Fox friends started in on the death panel crap. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/97 "2010-01-25T23:01:35Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > When your doctor bills out for an hour the insurance companies expect him to list what he did during that hour. If he noted something like ‘consulted patient on end of life issues’ the insurance company may say that is not covered. The provision that people went all crazy with and spread lies about was simply ensure the doctor would be paid for that time. Last visit, the doctor and I talked about the scenarios in which the Steelers might be able to make the playoffs. I’m sure he didn’t put that down on the insurance form. I find it crazy that the doctor can’t simply put down “medical consultation” or some generic description of what was done, but that the insurance company needs to know every small detail of what was discussed. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/98 "2010-01-25T23:20:34Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Last visit, the doctor and I talked about the scenarios in which the Steelers might be able to make the playoffs. I’m sure he didn’t put that down on the insurance form. I find it crazy that the doctor can’t simply put down “medical consultation” or some generic description of what was done, but that the insurance company needs to know every small detail of what was discussed. Isn’t private health care wonderful? The doctors office may even have different codes for different insurers. Not only that, the insures decide what drugs can be prescribed for different conditions. For example, a doctor may recommend you take Paxil to help quit smoking but it won’t be covered for that so he may have to diagnose you as depressed in order for insurance to cover it. Of course that now becomes a pre-existing condition when you change insurers. Or maybe a 50mg tablet is reimbursed at a lower rate than 100mg (not per-mg, for each pill) and you may need to have him prescribe a 100mg and split them. These are not hypothetical, they are real examples from myself and a friend. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/99 "2010-01-25T23:27:13Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Last visit, the doctor and I talked about the scenarios in which the Steelers might be able to make the playoffs. I’m sure he didn’t put that down on the insurance form. I find it crazy that the doctor can’t simply put down “medical consultation” or some generic description of what was done, but that the insurance company needs to know every small detail of what was discussed. Have you had one of these discussions? The one we had with our lawyer was fairly extensive, and resulted in the generation of a medical directive. I don’t think a note on your record saying “jtgain says to pull the flippin’ plug” is going to be good enough. Plus, you might want some time to think it over before going. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099/100 "2010-01-25T23:38:21Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Last visit, the doctor and I talked about the scenarios in which the Steelers might be able to make the playoffs. I’m sure he didn’t put that down on the insurance form. I find it crazy that the doctor can’t simply put down “medical consultation” or some generic description of what was done, but that the insurance company needs to know every small detail of what was discussed. Your solution to this problem is insurance fraud? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-death-panels-thing-to-me/526099.md?page=6)