# Explain the difference between a forward lateral, a shovel pass, and whatever that underhand thing is that Mahomes does **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [October 4, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-difference-between-a-forward-lateral-a-shovel-pass-and-whatever-that-underhand-thing-is-that-mahomes-does/951878 "2021-10-04T16:52:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-difference-between-a-forward-lateral-a-shovel-pass-and-whatever-that-underhand-thing-is-that-mahomes-does/951878/61 "2021-10-07T14:36:20Z")
IIRC, one of the key elements of intentional grounding is that there is no receiver in the vicinity. This applies with or without the ball being thrown out of bounds. If there is a receiver, you may throw out of bounds, in fact, that’s the safest possible way to throw a ball away. If there is no receiver, then even throwing out of bounds won’t prevent an intentional-grounding flag from being thrown on you. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-difference-between-a-forward-lateral-a-shovel-pass-and-whatever-that-underhand-thing-is-that-mahomes-does/951878/62 "2021-10-07T14:42:34Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > This is distinguished in other examples by the word “intentional” when describing ineligible receivers. I agree that bouncing the ball off a guard’s helmet isn’t a penalty, nor does it result in a dead ball. I stand corrected on that one. Thank you (and thank you, @muldoonthief). ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-difference-between-a-forward-lateral-a-shovel-pass-and-whatever-that-underhand-thing-is-that-mahomes-does/951878/63 "2021-10-07T17:26:38Z")
I have seen illegal touching called on balls thrown into a lineman’s back many times. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-difference-between-a-forward-lateral-a-shovel-pass-and-whatever-that-underhand-thing-is-that-mahomes-does/951878/64 "2021-10-07T17:30:44Z")
If the QB throws them deliberately at a lineman, sure. The intent is the operative part. If a QB is hit as he throws and the ball ends up hitting a lineman, I wouldn’t expect to see a flag thrown as the trajectory was clearly unintentional. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-difference-between-a-forward-lateral-a-shovel-pass-and-whatever-that-underhand-thing-is-that-mahomes-does/951878/65 "2021-10-07T22:31:23Z")
Why would the QB ever intentionally throw at a lineman’s back? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-difference-between-a-forward-lateral-a-shovel-pass-and-whatever-that-underhand-thing-is-that-mahomes-does/951878/66 "2021-10-07T23:32:41Z")
To avoid a sack and an Intentional Grounding call if for whatever reason he can’t throw it out of bounds. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-difference-between-a-forward-lateral-a-shovel-pass-and-whatever-that-underhand-thing-is-that-mahomes-does/951878/67 "2021-10-08T02:07:28Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > I have seen illegal touching called on balls thrown into a lineman’s back many times Yeah, I would agree with this. I thought that if a OL first touches a pass it’s ALWAYS a penalty. But not according to the rules cited in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-difference-between-a-forward-lateral-a-shovel-pass-and-whatever-that-underhand-thing-is-that-mahomes-does/951878.md?page=3)