# Explain the neocon "Better Hillary Than McCain" thing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061 "2008-02-10T19:44:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/41 "2008-02-11T02:13:28Z")
Alrighty then. I’ll just assume you missed the thread title, the OP, and everywhere else I specifically asked about the Hillary thing, and just assume that you’re finding this thread a nice comfy place to set up your soapbox. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/42 "2008-02-11T02:35:51Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] Alrighty then. I’ll just assume you missed the thread title, the OP, and everywhere else I specifically asked about the Hillary thing, and just assume that you’re finding this thread a nice comfy place to set up your soapbox. [/QUOTE] Nooo. You talk about right wingers in Plural, yet only mention sweet Annie. Give me another one, in cite. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/43 "2008-02-11T02:35:59Z")
I lurk over at another forum. (One connected to an auction site for guns.) Some posts there suggest that they want a Democrat over McCain so that Democrats will get the blame for ‘ruining the country’. > [@](#): > > A vote for McCain is a vote for the Republican party to continue moving further to the left. Let the Dems win the election and screw things up so royally that it bites them in the ass…no pun intended. And several posters have said they’re going to write in Mickey Mouse rather than vote for McCain or Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/44 "2008-02-11T03:10:58Z")
[QUOTE=pkbites] What, I have to prove I disagree with your statement? [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: No, you have to prove the hardening and radicalization of the conservative movement is good for the country. I suppose it could be, but only insofar as it operates to freeze movement conservatives out of power. Your positions are not exactly marginal but they are embraced only by a minority in America. If you guys want to stay in the game, you have to learn to be satisfied with half a loaf. A while back you contributed to a thread: [Why conservatives can’t get what they want](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=377669). Now, I hope you understand the answer. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/45 "2008-02-11T03:12:34Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] And several posters have said they’re going to write in Mickey Mouse rather than vote for McCain or Clinton. [/QUOTE] :eek: But, Mickey’s even older than McCain! And he’ll pack the Supreme Court with Toons! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/46 "2008-02-11T03:28:13Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] Some posts there suggest that they want a Democrat over McCain so that Democrats will get the blame for ‘ruining the country’. [/QUOTE] And if the Democrats end the war, balance the budget, create good jobs and expand health care coverage, they will all say it was due to everything Bush did, only it took a while to take effect. They did the same thing after Reagan/Bush ballooned the deficit with their ‘voodoo economics’, and Clinton cleaned up their mess. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/47 "2008-02-11T03:31:39Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] And if the Democrats end the war, balance the budget, create good jobs and expand health care coverage, they will all say it was due to everything Bush did, only it took a while to take effect. They did the same thing after Reagan/Bush ballooned the deficit with their ‘voodoo economics’, and Clinton cleaned up their mess. [/QUOTE] Still, the next POTUS is going to have an even harder row to hoe than Bill did. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/48 "2008-02-11T03:36:46Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Still, the next POTUS is going to have an even harder row to hoe than Bill did. [/QUOTE] Oh, I am sure of that. I wouldn’t expect anything until the fourth year at the earliest. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/49 "2008-02-11T03:40:15Z")
I tell you, I see those McCain ads and I think he’s not running for President, he’s running for Commander in Chief. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/50 "2008-02-11T03:50:12Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] A while back you contributed to a thread: [Why conservatives can’t get what they want](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=377669) [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=pkbites] But let me reiterate: \*I don’t believe JM will energize the core base enough to get the nomination \*If he get’s the nomination I don’t believe he can win \*If he succeeds in either or both he will do it without my vote. [/QUOTE] Well, 2 out of 3 aint’t bad. I don’t believe he’ll win the general, and either way he’ll do it without my vote. McCain did not win the nomination by motivating the core base. He did it because there were other major candidates (who were just as unacceptable if you ask me) to choose from. The only one who was marginally acceptable (Fred Thompson) ran a horrible campaign. How many states did McCain get over 50% in? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/51 "2008-02-11T04:00:51Z")
[QUOTE=pkbites] McCain did not win the nomination by motivating the core base. He did it because there were other major candidates (who were just as unacceptable if you ask me) to choose from. [/QUOTE] No serious movement-conservative candidate in an election year more wide-open than any in living memory? And what does that tell you, eh? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/52 "2008-02-11T04:09:46Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] No serious movement-conservative candidate in an election year more wide-open than any in living memory? And what does that tell you, eh? [/QUOTE] Nothing more than what the Dole Candidacy did in 1996. (though Dole probably was more conservative than McCain. I don’t feel like looking up his record right now). One thing that Republicans do that’s stupid is they tend to vote for “the next guy in line”. They seem to have this sense of “it’s his turn”. I don’t get it. But then again, I am not a Republican, I’m a conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/53 "2008-02-11T05:07:08Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] The only way that someone who would prefer voting for Obama would then vote for McCain over Clinton would be if they were voting based on popular narratives regarding their personalities. If one prefers the policy positions of Obama, it would indeed be crazy to prefer McCain over most any other Democrat. [/QUOTE] Could it be because their tactics turn some people off? Could it be that they would rather vote for a politician that they disagree with on some issues (but trust and respect) over a politician they do not trust and respect even if they agree with them on more issues. I literally agree with Hillary on about 2 more issues than McCain. BTW, I think that people like Limbaugh and Coulter get more attention during Clinton administrations because some people love to hate them. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/54 "2008-02-11T05:30:14Z")
Wow. I had no idea you couldn’t be a conservative without being in favour of torture. This thread has been an edumacation. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/55 "2008-02-11T05:32:57Z")
[QUOTE=pkbites] One thing that Republicans do that’s stupid is they tend to vote for “the next guy in line”. They seem to have this sense of “it’s his turn”. I don’t get it. [/QUOTE] It makes sense. You put in your time, you pay your dues, and the party rewards you. What don’t you get about it? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/56 "2008-02-11T05:54:26Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] It makes sense. You put in your time, you pay your dues, and the party rewards you. What don’t you get about it? [/QUOTE] Putting in your time and “paying your dues” does not make one the best candidate. According to that goofy standard neither Clinton nor Obama should get the nomination of their party. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/57 "2008-02-11T13:44:41Z")
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi] I literally agree with Hillary on about 2 more issues than McCain. [/QUOTE] Literally? Which two are those? Given that he votes with the Republicans about 88% of the time and she with the Democrats about 90% of the time, I’m wondering about how well you know their positions. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/58 "2008-02-11T16:42:44Z")
On McCain and Obama, here’s an awesome video (a take-off of the inspiriational “Yes We Can” Will.I.Am video). [http://www.americablog.com/2008/02/you-saw-obama-video-now-watch-mccain.html](http://www.americablog.com/2008/02/you-saw-obama-video-now-watch-mccain.html) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/59 "2008-02-11T17:15:08Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] On McCain and Obama, here’s an awesome video (a take-off of the inspiriational “Yes We Can” Will.I.Am video). [http://www.americablog.com/2008/02/you-saw-obama-video-now-watch-mccain.html](http://www.americablog.com/2008/02/you-saw-obama-video-now-watch-mccain.html) [/QUOTE] I hadn’t seen the original before. Holy crap. :eek: -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-neocon-better-hillary-than-mccain-thing/437061/60 "2008-02-11T18:01:01Z")
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