# Explain The Penn State Fiasco **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 10, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451 "2011-11-10T00:37:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/101 "2011-11-15T00:25:30Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > He could not have possibly believed it was dealt with appropriately, because he was never never questioned by the police about it. Or are you suggesting that he thought what he saw might not be a crime? [This is a response to this post, and all the other responses, in this thread, to it. I won’t bother to quote them all.] A major crime I was peripherally involved with, that required police investigation, was the theft of a rather expensive piece of equipment. You could have fenced it for more than I was paid for that day’s, and the next day’s, or even that _month’s_ combined work, even if you only got 5% of it’s retail value. I was the last person to “see it alive”, in the sense that I was the one who finished up my work, then locked the door, only to return 9 hours later to find that the entire job was shut down, due to the critical place that piece of equipment occupied in our work, and we didn’t have one available. (I didn’t steal it.) I was the “obvious” suspect, and expected to be interrogated that day, but, instead, I was “never never” even questioned about it. What was I to think about that lack of questioning? I’ll tell ya. Nobody _official_ cared enough to even ask me, let alone initiate a hostile interrogation. McQueary (sp? I’ve seen it at least 2 ways in this thread) was in that position. If all the higher-ups are claiming it’s been (or being) investigated, and no one is doing anything else about it, and they are not even asking you what you know, who do you report it to, further? Especially when any further report you make will cost you the career you’ve been building? And achieve nothing more, except your being fired? How far would you go? How far must _HE_ go, to obtain your forgiveness? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/102 "2011-11-15T02:31:47Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > [This is a response to this post, and all the other responses, in this thread, to it. I won’t bother to quote them all.] > > A major crime I was peripherally involved with, that required police investigation, was the theft of a rather expensive piece of equipment. You could have fenced it for more than I was paid for that day’s, and the next day’s, or even that _month’s_ combined work, even if you only got 5% of it’s retail value. I was the last person to “see it alive”, in the sense that I was the one who finished up my work, then locked the door, only to return 9 hours later to find that the entire job was shut down, due to the critical place that piece of equipment occupied in our work, and we didn’t have one available. (I didn’t steal it.) I was the “obvious” suspect, and expected to be interrogated that day, but, instead, I was “never never” even questioned about it. > > What was I to think about that lack of questioning? I’ll tell ya. Nobody _official_ cared enough to even ask me, let alone initiate a hostile interrogation. > > McQueary (sp? I’ve seen it at least 2 ways in this thread) was in that position. If all the higher-ups are claiming it’s been (or being) investigated, and no one is doing anything else about it, and they are not even asking you what you know, who do you report it to, further? > > Especially when any further report you make will cost you the career you’ve been building? And achieve nothing more, except your being fired? How far would you go? How far must _HE_ go, to obtain your forgiveness? You must be joking to consider the situations even remotely similar. McCreary was the sole eye wiitness (except for the unidentified victim) to a violent crime. His testimony would be absolutely critical to any possible prosecution. You were not a witness to anything at all, except that you saw the equipment undisturbed when you left. It’s unlikely you can even know that you were the “last” person – someone else might have come in, or there might be surveillance tapes… The most you can testify to is that it was there at a certain time and gone at another time. You can’t even be sure there was a crime at all, except that maybe other people around at the time said so. Or, for whatever reasons, management might have decided not to call the cops. I’m really not sure whether that failure constitutes a crime or not, but I certainly wouldn’t fault you for not calling the police because you were expecting to be questioned and you weren’t. You were not a witness to anything. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/103 "2011-11-15T05:00:07Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > McQueary (sp? I’ve seen it at least 2 ways in this thread) was in that position. If all the higher-ups are claiming it’s been (or being) investigated, and no one is doing anything else about it, and they are not even asking you what you know, who do you report it to, further? In McQueary case, the police or child services. In your case, if the company you work for decides not to press charges, then there is nothing for you to do. It is up to them to press charges if an item is stolen. A minor in the US is unable to give consent to sexual acts. So there is no question as to if having sex with a 10 year old is a crime or not, and (as far as I know) the child does not need to press charges. It is like if you kill someone. It is not up to the victim’s family to press charges. It is done by the DA’s office. > [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Especially when any further report you make will cost you the career you’ve been building? And achieve nothing more, except your being fired? How far would you go? How far must _HE_ go, to obtain your forgiveness? Yes. A mans career is worth more than a child being raped. :rolleyes: Do you guys really believe that? Cause people in this thread keep bringing that up. It really makes me sick. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/104 "2011-11-15T05:26:19Z")
I just pitted everyone who thinks a mans job is more important that turning a rapist in to the police: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14464247#post14464247](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14464247#post14464247) ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/105 "2011-11-15T05:33:29Z")
> [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](#): > > Yes. A mans career is worth more than a child being raped. :rolleyes: > > Do you guys really believe that? Cause people in this thread keep bringing that up. It really makes me sick. Nobody believes that, but they do believe a man’s career might be worth more than an unprovable allegation. While the act is occurring is one thing, but once two weeks have passed there is no physical evidence and probably no way to identify the victim without the cooperation of the assailant. It will come down to your word against his. Is it really worth ruining your career to accomplish nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Pink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c67d28/32.png) [@Mr.Pink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Pink)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/106 "2011-11-15T05:55:46Z")
It’s a shame. It’s even worse when you hear PSU alumni saying that Paterno is a victim in this. What a piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/107 "2011-11-15T13:09:01Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > Nobody believes that, but they do believe a man’s career might be worth more than an unprovable allegation. > While the act is occurring is one thing, but once two weeks have passed there is no physical evidence and probably no way to identify the victim without the cooperation of the assailant. It will come down to your word against his. Bullshit there’s no way to identify the victim. This wasn’t some kid who randomly wandered onto the Penn State campus, he was invited, likely as part of a group event. I also feel it is necessary to distinguish between an unprovable allegation and a covered up incident. If you watched a guy sodomize a little kid, and after your report there was no police investigation, you need to follow up. You, at a minimum, need to have the higher ups explain why they didn’t go to the police. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/108 "2011-11-15T14:04:30Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m not sure of the distinction, but per their [website](http://www.police.psu.edu/), the Penn State police are real police; they have police powers within their jurisdiction and they are armed. Police = Campus? Now there’s an encouragement that they impartially will take your word over some of the most important people in the most important program on campus - not sweep it under the rug… oh, wait, they’ve already done that once? I agree - he could have done something - but most likely he was shocked and confused. A 28yo who goes and asks his dad what to do is obviously not a bull in a china shop. He could have done more - but he did report it, give him credit for that. In the end, 9 years later, that makes a very big difference. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/109 "2011-11-15T14:37:01Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Police = Campus? Now there’s an encouragement that they impartially will take your word over some of the most important people in the most important program on campus - not sweep it under the rug… oh, wait, they’ve already done that once? Way more than once. The Penn State campus police have a bit of a reputation for sweeping things under floor coverings. When I was attending, it was a known fact that sexual assault reports were almost never followed up on. Can’t have the campus known to be dangerous…it might curtail enrollment! The campus police office is where crimes embarrassing to the administration go to die. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/110 "2011-11-15T15:10:00Z")
Now there are reports that McQueary (correct spelling!) did stop the rape he observed. Apparently that fact was not mentioned in the grand jury documentation because it wasn’t a fact that was requires to get the indictment against Sandusky. If that is the case then he deserves a _little_ more slack than we’ve been giving him. Still should have done more after the fact, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/111 "2011-11-15T19:05:58Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Now there are reports that McQueary (correct spelling!) did stop the rape he observed. Apparently that fact was not mentioned in the grand jury documentation because it wasn’t a fact that was requires to get the indictment against Sandusky. > > If that is the case then he deserves a _little_ more slack than we’ve been giving him. Still should have done more after the fact, IMHO. Yeah. He should have reported it to the campus police. After all, if he’d spent 10 years or more on campus, he’d know that gets results. Or he could wait until the mayor or the governor were seated in their complimentary box during one of the games, and told them… (sarcasm alert!) What do you suggest he do after the fact? We’re yapping in circles here, but when the whole small town deck is stacked against you, how much effort do you put into it? Maybe he told the local prosecutor, the one who mysteriously disappeared… I say he displayed a lot of courage by telling Paterno in the first place. I give Paterno credit for not railroading the guy out of town as a threat… maybe Paterno did not believe him, just thought he was misunderstanding what he saw. Willful blindness. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/112 "2011-11-16T00:55:21Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > If that is the case then he deserves a _little_ more slack than we’ve been giving him. Still should have done more after the fact, IMHO. In an interview today Sandusky says it was all innocent and McQueary misunderstood. They had all the showers going and the kid was sliding around in the shower… If he can be that bald-faced and willing to speak in public after all that has happened at this point and think he can talk his way out of it, is it any wonder that he danced his way out of the reported assault when he was still Big Man on Campus surrounded by buddies and adoring fans who didn’t want to believe it? Meanwhile, another article says that 10 more former victims have come forward. That makes what, 18? 19? I see a pattern here… ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/113 "2011-11-16T01:34:14Z")
[The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/sports/ncaafootball/in-july-paterno-transferred-ownership-of-home-to-his-wife-for-1.html) is reporting Paterno transferred ownership of his house to his wife for $1 in July. A professor who specializes in elder law quoted in the article says: “I can’t see any tax advantages”…“If someone told me that, my reaction would be, ‘Are they hoping to shield assets in case if there’s personal liability?’" ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/114 "2011-11-16T01:39:35Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > [The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/sports/ncaafootball/in-july-paterno-transferred-ownership-of-home-to-his-wife-for-1.html) is reporting Paterno transferred ownership of his house to his wife for $1 in July. > > A professor who specializes in elder law quoted in the article says: > > “I can’t see any tax advantages”…“If someone told me that, my reaction would be, ‘Are they hoping to shield assets in case if there’s personal liability?’" Could it possibly be that Paterno has recently had a diagnosis of something degenerative, and is asset dumping in case he has to enter long-term care? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/115 "2011-11-16T01:40:36Z")
Degenerative to his body or his income? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/116 "2011-11-16T01:41:50Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Degenerative to his body or his income? I was thinking degenerative disease, actually. Something like Parkinson’s or Alzheimer’s…the house transfer may have had nothing to do with the Sandusky thing at all. ETA: Not that long-term care in the case of an 84-year-old is likely to be very long-term. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/117 "2011-11-16T02:48:01Z")
I thought it must be a mistake, but Paterno’s pension is apparently going to be over $500,000 per year. That kind of $$$ can buy a LOT of assorted little pills to help soothe a guilty conscience, or at least help you float above all of your legal troubles (assuming charges are ever filed against kindly old Coach “Joe Pa”) for a few hours at a time. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/118 "2011-11-16T03:51:31Z")
Hmm, seems everyone was jumping to conclusions. [http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-penn-state-scandal-mcqueary-20111115,0,1687969.story](http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-penn-state-scandal-mcqueary-20111115,0,1687969.story) > [@](#): > > By Mark Wogenrich and Andrew McGill, Of The Morning Call > 4:36 p.m. EST, November 15, 2011 > Mike McQueary, the Penn State assistant football coach under fire for his reported lack of action in an alleged 2002 rape of a boy by Jerry Sandusky, said in an email to a former classmate that he stopped the assault in an athletic facility shower and discussed it with police. > … > In the email obtained by The Morning Call, dated Nov. 8, McQueary said “I did stop it, not physically, but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room.” > … > The State College Police Department did not return a call for comment. So McQueary reported it to police. Campus police, I assume; and the official in charge of those police. He’s been emailing his friends to explain his side. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/119 "2011-11-16T03:56:11Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Hmm, seems everyone was jumping to conclusions. [http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-penn-state-scandal-mcqueary-20111115,0,1687969.story](http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-penn-state-scandal-mcqueary-20111115,0,1687969.story) > > So McQueary reported it to police. Campus police, I assume; and the official in charge of those police. He’s been emailing his friends to explain his side. This new claim directly conflicts his sworn testimony to the grand jury. Therefore, we have NOT been jumping to conclusions - we have been basing our reactions based on the man’s OWN testimony, given under oath, to the grand jury. The fact that McQueary now is stating something different makes him doubly reprehensible - either he’s lying now, or was lying to a grand jury under oath, which makes him guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice (I’m sure someone will come in and tell me I’m wrong about that legal stuff). In addition, if he was lying then about the police NOT being contacted, he’s guilty of perjury, and he’s also accusing the police of not investigating the crime, which makes the entire situation THAT MUCH WORSE, not better. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451/120 "2011-11-17T13:05:48Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > This new claim directly conflicts his sworn testimony to the grand jury. > > Therefore, we have NOT been jumping to conclusions - we have been basing our reactions based on the man’s OWN testimony, given under oath, to the grand jury. The fact that McQueary now is stating something different makes him doubly reprehensible - either he’s lying now, or was lying to a grand jury under oath, which makes him guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice (I’m sure someone will come in and tell me I’m wrong about that legal stuff). In addition, if he was lying then about the police NOT being contacted, he’s guilty of perjury, and he’s also accusing the police of not investigating the crime, which makes the entire situation THAT MUCH WORSE, not better. Do we know that? Has his sworn grand jury testimony been made public in its entirety? I’d imagine the parts made public are designed specifically to support the indictments. I avoided the story completely for the longest time but have been driving in range of alot of PA sports talk radio in the last few days. On thing mentioned yestrerday was that PSU admin people knew that there was a finsihed report of some kind in the summer. Makes the $1 house transfer thing mentioned above more suspect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-the-penn-state-fiasco/602451.md?page=7)