# Explain this fencing sticker **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411 "2009-04-17T13:52:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/1 "2009-04-17T13:52:28Z")
I saw an odd [bumper sticker](https://proprintwear.com/specials.php?page=6&osCsid=4086683eb9c21359707848694285b4b7) with three pictures on it labelled “good - better - best” on it. I finally managed to track it down and it appear to be related to fencing but it stills needs explanation. It appears to be three different types of sword hilts, but 1. only one of the hilts looks like you could actually hold it - the other two have sharp point looking bits where the hand would go and 2. there are several stickers which give conflicting opinions as to which hilt is ‘best’. What’s the dope?? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/2 "2009-04-17T14:01:03Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I saw an odd [bumper sticker](https://proprintwear.com/specials.php?page=6&osCsid=4086683eb9c21359707848694285b4b7) with three pictures on it labelled “good - better - best” on it. I finally managed to track it down and it appear to be related to fencing but it stills needs explanation. It appears to be three different types of sword hilts, but > > 1. only one of the hilts looks like you could actually hold it - the other two have sharp point looking bits where the hand would go and > > 2. there are several stickers which give conflicting opinions as to which hilt is ‘best’. > > What’s the dope?? Different hilts for sabre, epee, and foil. So the different orders depend on which weapon you prefer. With the epee and foil grips, the fingers wrap around those “sharp point looking bits.” You essentially grasp it with your wrist turned so that your palm os up. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/3 "2009-04-17T14:19:50Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > With the epee and foil grips, the fingers wrap around those “sharp point looking bits.” You essentially grasp it with your wrist turned so that your palm os up. Realized that might not make sense: -What you would likely consider the “handle” - the part that extends along the same line as the blade - lies across your palm from etween the thumb and forefinger, to the heel of your hand. Your last 2 fingers curl around the end of this portion of the grip. -You pretty much “hold” the weapon with your thumb and first 2 fingers. -Your thumb is behind the curved “pointy bit” that sticks up and to the left on those stickers. -Your fore- and middle fingers wrap around the other pointy bit. This grip allows you to manipulate the sword with minute movements of the wrist and fingers. You can see the countless different types of grips [here](http://shop.fencing.net/category_s/4.htm) The most basic “straight” grip most begining fencers start with is called a “French” style grip. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/4 "2009-04-17T14:36:15Z")
The hilts make a little more sense in 3D. The actual differences being shown are the bells protecting the hand. In [this one](https://proprintwear.com/product_info.php?products_id=162&osCsid=4086683eb9c21359707848694285b4b7), left-to-right, they go saber, foil, epee. The saber bell guard wraps around and connects to the base of the hilt to protect the knuckles from slashes. The epee guard is larger than the foil because the hand is a valid target in epee, but not in foil. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/5 "2009-04-17T14:47:22Z")
Those odd types of grips are called “pistol grips” as a general category. Basically it’s just that, with a few extra bits here and there. The top bit hooks around the thumb, and the bit that sticks backwards butts up against the wrist. Top two pictures [here](http://www.sword-play.net/techniques.htm) show how they’re held. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/6 "2009-04-17T14:48:36Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > 1. there are several stickers which give conflicting opinions as to which hilt is ‘best’. > > What’s the dope?? Personal preference ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/7 "2009-04-17T15:04:51Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > Top two pictures [here](http://www.sword-play.net/techniques.htm) show how they’re held. Damn, it’s been a while and I was trying to recreate from memory with nothing but a pen in my hand. In this case, a pic is worth far more than however many words I spilt… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Owl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@Mister\_Owl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Owl)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/8 "2009-04-17T15:14:16Z")
I think the stickers aren’t to indicate which style hilt the fencer perfers, but rather which style of fencing. The foil, saber and epee each have different rules particularly when it comes to scoring. Briefly, when fencing with foils only the torso counts as a scoring zone. A legal score must be delievered only with a thrust. In saber, scores are counted on everything from the waist up. The saber is used both as a thrusting and slashing weapon. Finally, with the epee the entire body is an open target. Like the saber scores are counted with both thrusts and slashes. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/9 "2009-04-17T15:18:44Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > 1. there are several stickers which give conflicting opinions as to which hilt is ‘best’. > > What’s the dope?? Imagine a Denver sports fan and a sticker for him might have a hockey player (signifying the Avalanche being his third favorite team in town), a basketball player (signifying the Nuggets being his second favorite team) and a football player (signifying the Broncos as his favorite team), but his neighbor and fellow sports fan would have a completely different order (my apologies to Rockies’ fans). Fencers have to be reasonably adept at all three, but all of us have a preference. I for one, dislike the epee (I am rather short and have short arms), tolerate the saber and love the foil - so you can figure out which sticker I would have purchased (I may yet - thanks for introducing me to the website). TV ---
**Author:** ![Proprintwear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Proprintwear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Proprintwear)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/10 "2011-06-18T03:54:34Z")
There are (3) three different weapons in fencing; Epee, Foil and Saber. Fencers like any athlete would like to believe that their weapon is the best to fence and thus the Good, Better, Best application. This provides for a positive reflection upon each while affording each fencer to express their individuality. That is why we offer the sticker rotating the weapons about. Sincerely, Proprintwear ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/11 "2011-06-18T04:30:48Z")
> [@Mister\_Owl](#): > > Finally, with the epee the entire body is an open target. Like the saber scores are counted with both thrusts and slashes. A minor correction: Only thrusts count in epee. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/12 "2011-06-18T07:18:58Z")
> [@Proprintwear](#): > > There are (3) three different weapons in fencing; Epee, Foil and Saber. Fencers like any athlete would like to believe that their weapon is the best to fence and thus the Good, Better, Best application. This provides for a positive reflection upon each while affording each fencer to express their individuality. That is why we offer the sticker rotating the weapons about. > > Sincerely, > Proprintwear I bet you sell the most of the one shown by the original poster. Epee fencers think they never get enough credit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/13 "2011-06-18T07:28:08Z")
> [@Mister\_Owl](#): > > Briefly… in saber, scores are counted on everything from the waist up. [nitpick]To be perfectly clear to OP, saber does not allow a score on the hand (i.e. below the wrist). I can’t remember when they changed it from complete hand.[/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/14 "2011-06-18T16:11:58Z")
That’s some good fresh info from the seller linked in the OP, but let’s take note this is a 2-year old zombie. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/15 "2011-06-18T16:52:12Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > That’s some good fresh info from the seller linked in the OP, but let’s take note this is a 2-year old zombie. Huh. You’re right. Didn’t check. Reading back on the thread, I wonder why it was brought back to life. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/16 "2011-06-18T17:27:56Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I wonder why it was brought back to life. I’d be willing to bet the seller randomly ran across it in Google and didn’t bother to notice the question had been answered two years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/17 "2011-06-18T17:44:53Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I’d be willing to bet the seller randomly ran across it in Google and didn’t bother to notice the question had been answered two years ago. Either that or the seller has been informed by PR that this new “social networking phenomenon” is a great new market to open up, and he now has to hunt down stuff that he can post about online to make the PR people happy. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/18 "2011-06-18T19:28:40Z")
This us the last thread of mine I expected to rise from the dead lol. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/19 "2011-06-18T22:00:03Z")
So which type fencing sword would be best for self-defense in the zombie apocalypse? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411/20 "2011-06-18T23:45:51Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > A minor correction: Only thrusts count in epee. It’s a **major** freaking correction. He might as well have posted that you score a touchdown in football by running out of bounds. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-fencing-sticker/493411.md?page=2)