# Explain this headstone to me **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791 "2009-07-30T17:18:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/1 "2009-07-30T17:18:05Z")
I was at the cemetary today and was wandering around some of the new gravesites and headstones and ran across this odd one and have no idea what it means: * * * ``` Roberta J Lukanen -STILL- RITUALLY MUTILATED ``` July 19, 1945 - * * * Looks like she hasn’t passed away yet but got the headstone ahead of time. I know about the controversial female ritual mutilations in other countries and maybe she was affected by this but it seems a very odd thing (and the only thing) to put on a headstone. Any insight? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/2 "2009-07-30T17:22:17Z")
Possibly it means she was stillborn? Does any culture ritually mutilate stillborn children? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/3 "2009-07-30T17:25:41Z")
Is she the same person who shows up in [this](http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=873165) record of amateur radio operator licenses? I guess you could contact her and ask, but I’d be too weirded out to actually do it. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/4 "2009-07-30T17:27:08Z")
I thought about the stillborn part but I looked her name up and she still lives at a local address. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/5 "2009-07-30T17:28:52Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Is she the same person who shows up in [this](http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=873165) record of amateur radio operator licenses? I guess you could contact her and ask, but I’d be too weirded out to actually do it. I believe that’s her. She lives in St.Louis Park and the cemetary is in Brooklyn Center about 10 miles away. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/6 "2009-07-30T17:30:32Z")
When we were down at my parents’ house in Fernandina Beach, we looked around the cemeteries and found a Charles Angel, Assassinated (date) - I think the date was something like 1895 or so. We never did find out what was up with that. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/7 "2009-07-30T17:32:38Z")
Her DOB is just post WWII, name sounds German. The name may not be the one she was born with. Possibly caught in the recriminations (on her family) that followed, like Anastasia? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/8 "2009-07-30T17:39:30Z")
I’m dying to know. Please, please, ask her! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/9 "2009-07-30T17:47:05Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > When we were down at my parents’ house in Fernandina Beach, we looked around the cemeteries and found a Charles Angel, Assassinated (date) - I think the date was something like 1895 or so. We never did find out what was up with that. Not much out there. I found [this](http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.friend/595/mb.ashx?pnt=1): > [@](#): > > Looking for information on Emil Friend, Norwalk, Ohio. Father was John Friend, Mother was Maia Aeye (Ulrich) Friend. Emil had a sister Caroline Bertha Philippine (Friend) Angel, Who was married to **Charles Angel, they lived in Fernandina Beach** , Florida, (on Amelia Island, FLA). Emil was my Grandmother’s (Elizabeth Angel Starke) uncle. Would like information on Emil and family for family tree. I wonder if anyone could search newspapers from Amelia Island around that timeframe? ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/10 "2009-07-30T18:26:08Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > When we were down at my parents’ house in Fernandina Beach, we looked around the cemeteries and found a Charles Angel, Assassinated (date) - I think the date was something like 1895 or so. We never did find out what was up with that. I don’t know if this adds anything to the discussion, but from reading newspaper accounts from around 1865, “assassinated” seems to be sometimes synonymous with the more mundane “murdered.” Also, several newspaper accounts from that time used “assassination” for attempted murder, not necessarily the actual death itself, such as, “So-and-so assassinated, but expected to survive.” I had to read it a couple of times the first time I saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/11 "2009-07-30T18:35:40Z")
We meant to ask them at the local history museum, but we forgot about it. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/12 "2009-07-30T18:45:47Z")
I wold bet the caretaker of the cemetery knows the story. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/13 "2009-07-30T18:48:42Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > Her DOB is just post WWII, name sounds German. Looks to me like a Finnish name, personally, possibly a corruption of Liikanen. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/14 "2009-07-30T19:07:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I wonder if anyone could search newspapers from Amelia Island around that timeframe? [One of my favorite websites.](http://xooxleanswers.com/newspaperarchives.aspx) They have a link to [here](http://www.uflib.ufl.edu/UFDC/UFDC.aspx?c=fdnl1), which has free, searchable archives of some Florida papers. I frequently get sucked in to hours of meandering through those old newspapers. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/15 "2009-07-30T21:24:13Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I was at the cemetary today and was wandering around some of the new gravesites and headstones and ran across this odd one and have no idea what it means: > > * * * > > ``` > Roberta J Lukanen > -STILL- > RITUALLY > MUTILATED > > ``` > > July 19, 1945 - > > * * * > > Looks like she hasn’t passed away yet but got the headstone ahead of time. > I know about the controversial female ritual mutilations in other countries and maybe she was affected by this but it seems a very odd thing (and the only thing) to put on a headstone. > > Any insight? Well, about the only thing that pops to mind would be if she was actually born into a group that practiced female circumcision. Because someone was born Roberta Mgabe doesnt mean she couldnt have married some guy named Lukanen and emmigrated. Although … are not jews forbidden to be tattooed? and couldnt she be a survivor of one of the camps, and hence ‘ritually unclean’ because of the tat? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/16 "2009-07-30T22:13:26Z")
Could it be that she is some kind of activist against ritual mutilation? And wanted her tombstone to bear a message about it? Like, “Women are STILL ritually mutilated” - which would explain the “STILL” part. She wanted to spread this message even after she was dead? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/17 "2009-07-30T22:37:48Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Although … are not jews forbidden to be tattooed? and couldnt she be a survivor of one of the camps, and hence ‘ritually unclean’ because of the tat? Not if she was born in July of 1945, which is a couple months after V-E Day. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/18 "2009-07-30T22:44:00Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Could it be that she is some kind of activist against ritual mutilation? And wanted her tombstone to bear a message about it? Like, “Women are STILL ritually mutilated” - which would explain the “STILL” part. She wanted to spread this message even after she was dead? If she is some kind of activist then she’s a pretty stupid one because her message is too vague to convey meaning even under close scrutiny. Maybe she’s with PETA and she has something against wool? MUTilated, MUTtin? etc? ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/19 "2009-07-31T00:28:32Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Although … are not jews forbidden to be tattooed? and couldnt she be a survivor of one of the camps, and hence ‘ritually unclean’ because of the tat? The idea that Jews with tattoos can’t be buried in Jewish cemeteries is a myth. (Tattoos aren’t permitted by Jewish law, but that has nothing to do with ritual uncleanliness, and anyway, ritual uncleanliness is mostly irrelevant since the destruction of the Temple two millenia ago.) Also, in Jewish law, one is not held responsible for acts committed against one’s will, like being tattooed by Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![lynndavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@lynndavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynndavis)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791/20 "2014-07-12T02:28:16Z")
I was walking at the Crystal lake Cemetery and a grave marker caught my eye as it had so much writing on it: The Censored Marker of ROBERTA J. LUKANEN Can be viewed at MOUND CEMETERY 69th Avenue North at Palmer Lake Drive Brooklyn Center, Minn. Section 3 Block 18 Lot 1 Grave 2 I will be checking this out. More to come. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-this-headstone-to-me/504791.md?page=2)