# Explain to me (Asian) Indian names **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960 "2008-11-04T00:56:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/21 "2008-11-04T16:20:04Z")
Traditionally, all male Sikhs are named “Singh”. Sadashiv isn’t a caste name, it’s an aspect/epithet of the Hindu god Shiva. ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/22 "2008-11-04T16:45:27Z")
> [@Risha](#): > > In other words, I should give up trying to make any sort of assumption, and ask each person what they wish to be called. 🙂 That would, I think, be by far the best approach. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/23 "2008-11-04T17:39:31Z")
The best Indian name I’ve seen belonged to a guy whose ethnic group (which I don’t know) had no last names so his grandfather chose his occupation as his last name. Burzin Engineer is just about the coolest name ever. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/24 "2008-11-04T18:29:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, yeah, I’m familiar with those. I’d never dare to try to spell one here without an actual example, but they often have 15 to 20 letters. Perhaps the most famous example would be the great theoretical astrophysicist Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, known to almost everybody as just Chandra. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/25 "2008-11-04T19:14:34Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > It only irritates me when they say names like “Wawryziniec” just fine and then think mine is weird. Trust me as someone with a Polish last name, 99% of people in the US aren’t gonna pronounce Wawrzyniec (one ‘i’) correctly. They can’t even pronounce _my_ name correctly, and it’s one of the few Polish last names that’s _also_\* completely phonetic in English! - “also” because Polish names are basically phonetic if you know how to pronounce Polish. Understandable if you don’t, but man I get sick of, “why isn’t it spelled how it’s pronounced???” questions. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/26 "2008-11-04T19:33:52Z")
My apologies, zweisamkeit. People don’t even try. I can’t count the number of people who have looked at my name, and then just call me by my last name, which is easier. But I know my first name isn’t hard, because sometimes, white poeple DO try it and they usually do a darn good job. Just sound it out! Ugh, I sound like everybody in the world who bitches about their name. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/27 "2008-11-04T19:53:00Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > My apologies, zweisamkeit. > People don’t even try. I can’t count the number of people who have looked at my name, and then just call me by my last name, which is easier. But I know my first name isn’t hard, because sometimes, white poeple DO try it and they usually do a darn good job. Just sound it out! > > Ugh, I sound like everybody in the world who bitches about their name. 🙂 No worries. 🙂 I have to admit I felt like shit when I read your post, because you say you hate when non-Indians use your first name. I’m always afraid I’ll mispronounce something and sound like a dumbass, but I’d like to at least do my best. And now I feel like a jackass because I might be annoying people. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/28 "2008-11-04T20:05:39Z")
I did say, I don’t like it and not that I hate it! 🙂 But I don’t hate when people just look at my name and try it. This is OK: “Hello, Anaamika. I hope I pronounced that right.” “Hey! You did right (or) This is how it sounds. But you can call me Mika. I like that better.” What I don’t like is, after that conversation, or when I’ve introduced myself as ‘Mika’, people sometimes will call me Anaamika for shits and giggles apparently. Don’t do that! Why would you do that? You know what I like to be called, I done went and told you! Disclaimer: My real name is not Anaamika. But it serves as a darn good example, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Solfy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Solfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Solfy)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/29 "2008-11-04T20:19:38Z")
This thread explains a lot to me regarding my Indian coworkers inability to explain naming convention to westerners. My direct supervisor goes by the shortened version of longer name that is used on formal work documents. Her last name on common paperwork is also a shortened version of a longer name on formal documents. My office mate’s husband works for the same company at a different site. Due to a snafu with imigration, they mixed up her husband’s family name and given name, and now her “last” name is her husband’s given name, which is rather long. It’s fun to hear the front desk guards attempt to page her. (I feel for them - we’ve got a lot of foreign nationals here) Her husband goes by either a shortened version of the “last” name, or by the letter V. (which does not appear anywhere in the “last” name and is, I believe, the first initial of his first name as it appears on American paperwork. Another supervisor goes by two letters and a “last” name. I don’t know if that’s a family name or a given name or a location. The name on his paperwork is an unpronouncable-by-westerners name starting with the first letter that he goes by, and the usual last name. So the only general rule I can claim is to call people what they wish to be called, and if in doubt, ask. And do not try to make sense of any of it. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/30 "2008-11-04T20:55:18Z")
> [@Risha](#): > > In other words, I should give up trying to make any sort of assumption, and ask each person what they wish to be called. 🙂 Yeah, that’s probably for the best. For a good number of South Indians, the last name will be the given name, but it’s not universal. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/31 "2008-11-05T01:02:03Z")
You have a full name which is often a traditional western style name which a person would go by in actual life, in business and circles and would suffice for pretty much everything. And then there is the complete name which is very long and would be used; pretty much never except perhaps when the person needs to be distinguished. So [Shahid Afridi Profile - Cricket Player Pakistan | Stats, Records, Video](http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/42639.html) Complete name: Shahibzada Muhammad Shahid Khan Afridi. Full name for pretty much all practical purposes; Shahid Afridi Another (Sri Lankan) > **[Chaminda Vaas Profile - Cricket Player Sri Lanka | Stats, Records, Video](https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/chaminda-vaas-50804)** > > Read about Chaminda Vaas cricket player from Sri Lanka profile, stats, rankings, records, videos, photos at ESPNcricinfo Complete Name: Warnakulasuriya Patabendige Ushantha Joseph Chaminda Vaas Full Name: Chaminda Vaas. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/32 "2008-11-05T02:58:36Z")
I have no problem with someone trying to pronounce my name and failing. My name isn’t familiar to most of my fellow Americans, so I am not offended by a failure to get it right. What _does_ offend me are stupid comments about my name, like “oh, I’m not even going to _try_ to say it.” I also am annoyed by apologies … Look, you don’t know me. There’s nothing to apologize for for not knowing how to pronounce my name. **Princhester** , **Risha** , there’s no need for anyone’s head to “asplode” (frankly, that comment feels a bit offensive to me). The simple point is that Indian culture is a conglomeration of scores of different cultures. Whenever you ask a question about “Indians,” imagine you’re asking a question about the culture of North America, South America, Europe, and the Middle East all at once. Simply don’t expect there to be a single answer. But, to try to get _some_ generalization, it is possible to say that overally, family names are used in the north and not in the south. **Bright** ’s post is very good if you want to know anything more specific. The question of the initials is an interesting one. Of course, only a person who uses initials can be a good source, but my feeling is that if a person is _never_ addressed in his native culture by the full form, then practically speaking, it is the initialized form that is the “real” name. Oh, and another general rule – if a south Indian asks you to address him by what looks like his “last” name, then it’s probably his given name, not his family name, especially if you _never_ see the initials spelled out. Again, this is not true for any particular case. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/33 "2008-11-06T10:31:14Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > **Princhester** , **Risha** , there’s no need for anyone’s head to “asplode” (frankly, that comment feels a bit offensive to me). You gave 12 different name orders for one community. The system in your community is complex and inconsistent, as your very own post explains. I don’t intend that to be offensive. It’s just a simple fact. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/34 "2008-11-06T11:20:20Z")
There’s a problem I’ve noticed in the Vietnamese community - well-meant intentions to simplify naming protocols end up fucking things right up. When the Vietnamese first started arriving in Australia in the 70s, our none-too-cosmopolitan whitebread society of the day had no end of trouble with their custom of “Family name first - secondary given name second - main given name last”. But slowly we got used to it. Just as we got used to it, the Vietnamese - by then becoming more assimilated - decided to make things easier for us by adopting Western name order. At least some people did. Others didn’t. Then, to confuse things even more, some took up their “middle” name (much as some Westerners do) because it was easier for the locals to pronounce. Then there’s the Vietnamese names that are almost like titles (“Thi” for girls and “Van” for guys) which are a bit like having “Mr” or Ms" as a part of your actual name. But not all people had that. Of those that did, only some dropped it - again, trying to be helpful. So take the “Jane Doe” name of Nguyen Thi Kim Huong… She’s Ms Nguyen, called “Huong” by her friends. Then she changes it - upon arrival in the West - to Thi Kim Huong Nguyen. Or maybe she doesn’t. Then she finds “Ms Thi…” looks tautological to her, so she drops the “Thi”. Or maybe she doesn’t. Then she finds our lot can’t pronouce “Huong” to save ourselves, but we’re fine with “Kim”, so she adopts that name instead. Or maybe she doesn’t. Good intentions on both sides, but a bastard if you’re trying to do paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![Cider\_Depot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Cider\_Depot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cider_Depot)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/35 "2008-11-06T11:53:13Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > There’s a problem I’ve noticed in the Vietnamese community - well-meant intentions to simplify naming protocols end up fucking things right up. > > When the Vietnamese first started arriving in Australia in the 70s, our none-too-cosmopolitan whitebread society of the day had no end of trouble with their custom of “Family name first - secondary given name second - main given name last”. But slowly we got used to it. Just as we got used to it, the Vietnamese - by then becoming more assimilated - decided to make things easier for us by adopting Western name order. At least some people did. Others didn’t. Then, to confuse things even more, some took up their “middle” name (much as some Westerners do) because it was easier for the locals to pronounce. Then there’s the Vietnamese names that are almost like titles (“Thi” for girls and “Van” for guys) which are a bit like having “Mr” or Ms" as a part of your actual name. But not all people had that. Of those that did, only some dropped it - again, trying to be helpful. > > So take the “Jane Doe” name of Nguyen Thi Kim Huong… > > She’s Ms Nguyen, called “Huong” by her friends. > > Then she changes it - upon arrival in the West - to Thi Kim Huong Nguyen. Or maybe she doesn’t. > > Then she finds “Ms Thi…” looks tautological to her, so she drops the “Thi”. Or maybe she doesn’t. > > Then she finds our lot can’t pronouce “Huong” to save ourselves, but we’re fine with “Kim”, so she adopts that name instead. Or maybe she doesn’t. > > Good intentions on both sides, but a bastard if you’re trying to do paperwork. That’s a problem right there. Western forms are designed to work with names that take the form [personal name] ([middle name]) [family name]. Western data models are designed for it. Ebay (Australia), to cite a known example, allows you to register only [First name] [Last name]. More correctly, these forms should use [Full name] as a separate field, and [preferred greeting] as another. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/36 "2008-11-06T23:03:23Z")
“Huong Nguyen”? I guess “Kim” is better than “John Wayne” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/37 "2008-11-06T23:16:36Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > and it’s one of the few Polish last names that’s _also_\* completely phonetic in English! My last ( and for that matter first ) name is south Slavic, six letters long and completely phonetic in American English. My family even added the “h” to the traditional “ic” patronymic when the entered this country to make it more so. Maybe one person in ten get it right on the first try :D. People often just try too hard on exotic-looking names. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/38 "2008-11-06T23:19:26Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > **Princhester** , **Risha** , there’s no need for anyone’s head to “asplode” (frankly, that comment feels a bit offensive to me). > > . Frankly, my head was about to asplode. It would have been easier if you had made a list andy - first name frank- fathers first name jean - mothers name jaipoor - city whatever other name components there are. instead of going generic; then people could have seen you going: jaipoor dave jean sammy fred alternate version jaipoor sammy fred alternate version sammy fred jai[poor the generic/generic/generic/generic or generic/generic/generic gets pretty fucking impossible to follow … hence asplodey head. Now if someone as an exercise in pity would like to redo that post, with actual names that might belong to actual people [indian or generic american names would work] i would be infinitely thrilled… ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/39 "2008-11-07T01:24:29Z")
Ok, how’s this: Poindexter’s family hails from London. His family name is Smith. He is an engineer and is a Duke. His name would be: London Smith Poindexter (abbreviated L.S. Poindexter) or Engineer Smith Poindexter (abbreviated E.S. Poindexter) or Duke Smith Poindexter (abbreviated D.S. Poindexter) Let’s take the first example. Because Poindexter is so long, he decides to abbreviate it. So his name becomes: L.S.P. Dexter Now, the alternate naming convention I’ve seen is: Smith Poindexter London (you can sub Engineer or Duke for London). In which case, the abbreviation would be: S.P. London Keep in mind though, that some people may not use the 3 name convention. So, you might get: London Poindexter which would be abbreviated either L. Poindexter or L.P. Dexter I’m not going to do the women’s names here, unless someone really wants me to. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960/40 "2008-11-07T01:32:12Z")
I should clarify. Above, I’m using engineer and Duke as caste name equivalents. These are hereditary–I’ve only occasionally seen people adopt a name based on their current profession, although presumably, this is how the name came about a long time ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/explain-to-me-asian-indian-names/470960.md?page=3)